im so sick and tired of daw crashes. ie the most stable daw?

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I'm not sure I understand that last post. When I was 32 bit years ago, cubase 5 wouldn't close on it's own if the korg padkontrol was plugged in. Prolly has nothing to do with what you are doing but thought I'd mention it.

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I have the feeling I may be the only person using this ( but that's OK, I made it for myself anyway :hihi: ), not too sophisticated, but it has allowed me to use some great but temperamental plugins without worrying with bringing the whole thing down:

http://jstuff.wordpress.com/pluginflipflop/
Free MIDI plugins and other stuff:
https://jstuff.wordpress.com
"MIDI 2.0 is an extension of MIDI 1.0. It does not replace MIDI 1.0(...)"

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AstralExistence wrote:o.m.f.g that's it! what i mean is, i thought the asio bug was a cubase bug, turns out it is not. was having similar spike issues in s1v2....
I'm pleased that you tracked down the actual root cause, rather than assuming it was the DAW software and going and buying something different :tu:

One cannot pay too much attention and care to properly optimising and configuring the underlying OS, drivers etc.
Good practice suggests that changing only one setting / driver or disabling one service at a time is generally a good approach.

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TheoM wrote:The only thing I haven't (obviously) tested is bitwig.
As a purely practical matter I kinda tend to doubt that. :) I say that in a non-offensive way, but it seems near impossible for anyone without a lot of time and resources and money to actually do that... fully test every single audio workstation.

I always take comments like that to mean... "I've tested everything I could actually get my hands on, mostly the things KVR cares about, things that have demos and/or things I already own."
I hope you realize for me to be saying something so positive about it means that I am really meaning what I am saying.
I know you aren't being intentionally misleading. But I also think - in general - most of this kind stuff is ... kinda silly unless it's framed into a reasonable context. :hihi:

I mean, Gargageband never really crashes either. That doesn't make it the most stable daw in the world. It only means for it's most typical and somewhat limited use cases it's very stable. It you tried to use it like PTHDx, recording and punching 48 tracks at a time while feeding 18 pairs of phones with FX on every cue, it might not be so stable. :hihi: Of course, most people making those claims don't even have that much I/O.

Same goes for Reason and Mixcraft. Most of the people making those kinds of determinations aren't doing enough with it to even make those claims. What they're really saying (the real meaning) is... "For how I personally use it, it's really stable." :hihi:

It's kinda obvious that even though all of these products are - audio workstations - most of the testing is with virtual instruments, not really tons and tons of audio files? That's the first thing I did with Tracktion 5, loaded up 65 audio stems. It didn't do so well.

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LawrenceF wrote:
TheoM wrote:The only thing I haven't (obviously) tested is bitwig.
As a purely practical matter I kinda tend to doubt that. :) I say that in a non-offensive way, but it seems near impossible for anyone without a lot of time and resources and money to actually do that... fully test every single audio workstation.

I always take comments like that to mean... "I've tested everything I could actually get my hands on, mostly the things KVR cares about, things that have demos and/or things I already own."
I hope you realize for me to be saying something so positive about it means that I am really meaning what I am saying.
I know you aren't being intentionally misleading. But I also think - in general - most of this kind stuff is ... kinda silly unless it's framed into a reasonable context. :hihi:

I mean, Gargageband never really crashes either. That doesn't make it the most stable daw in the world. It only means for it's most typical and somewhat limited use cases it's very stable. It you tried to use it like PTHDx, recording and punching 48 tracks at a time while feeding 18 pairs of phones with FX on every cue, it might not be so stable. :hihi: Of course, most people making those claims don't even have that much I/O.

Same goes for Reason and Mixcraft. Most of the people making those kinds of determinations aren't doing enough with it to even make those claims. What they're really saying (the real meaning) is... "For how I personally use it, it's really stable." :hihi:

It's kinda obvious that even though all of these products are - audio workstations - most of the testing is with virtual instruments, not really tons and tons of audio files? That's the first thing I did with Tracktion 5, loaded up 65 audio stems. It didn't do so well.

you've been here quite a while, you're accusing of Theo of embellishing (which I think we all do) but let me ask you...what percentage of people here do you think will be punching 48 tracks pushing 18 pair of headphones? What percentage of people here do you think will own 18 sets of headphones in their lifetimes? :hihi: (I'm not really sure how software makes a difference in how many sets of headphones you can run...typically that's all about hardware like your sound card and/or headphone amps)

Myself, I am not very much into VSTi's or at least not to the extent of many here...jamstix, maybe minimonsta (or one of the few other virtual synths I have), B4 and/or indy pro sampler and that's about it. (I have more un-installed VSTi's that I bought than installed I would be will to guess). Once the part is done I always bounce to audio in place (which is how freeze works in samp). I play physical instruments and record a lot of waves with no issues (however, when I was using the P4 laptop I would have to mix down to stems to stop from overheating), and I think that would more depend on the RAM.

With all that said 65 tracks of audio stems? Stems are a combination of tracks mixed together, no? Though it would seem more would be likely let's just say each stem is two tracks mixed to one...that makes 130 tracks...again, how many people are mixing that many audio tracks here? You know your audience here so I do not see the logic behind your post. Again I think your limitation is going to be in your machine and not your software anyhow as I understand it.

So you think it's wrong for Theo to suggest he's tried every host out there and I agree, I think he agrees to...he hasn't tried 100% of them, no one can. but he's tried enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just like you examples are over the top, I respect your input on subjects. I know Theo, I know he does spend a lot of time working with his gear, we all know he has tried many, many hosts and tbh he would be one of the first people I would listen to in this case. Instead of tearing apart his claims of with atypical claims yourself, maybe he's a good person to listen to.

So what makes your context framed any more reasonably? I trust and know Theo to have not just demo'd but owned and put many, many pieces of software to a lot of testing. Whether or not he and I would agree on everything matters not, his extensive use of so much software makes him a great resource in my book and splitting hairs over some embellishments seems to counterproductive to the discussion :shrug:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Hink wrote:...let me ask you...what percentage of people here do you think will be punching 48 tracks pushing 18 pair of headphones? What percentage of people here do you think will own 18 sets of headphones in their lifetimes? :hihi:
Very few. Which was kind of the point. That what we mostly do around here electronic music wise doesn't represent the world so the context should maybe be narrowed a bit in the rhetoric. :)

The short version (stop being so wordy :hihi:): It seems to be all about running lots of plugs and virtual instruments and not crashing very much, the tests, and not much else.

Anyway, that's why you often see people butting heads about things like PT, one guy saying it's a crash fest and another guy saying it never crashes, runs like a dream. Because they're doing completely different things. :)

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LawrenceF wrote:
Hink wrote:...let me ask you...what percentage of people here do you think will be punching 48 tracks pushing 18 pair of headphones? What percentage of people here do you think will own 18 sets of headphones in their lifetimes? :hihi:
Very few. Which was kind of the point. That what we mostly do around here electronic music wise doesn't represent the world so the context should maybe be narrowed a bit in the rhetoric. :)

The short version (stop being so wordy :hihi:): It seems to be all about running lots of plugs and virtual instruments and not crashing very much, the tests, and not much else.

Anyway, that's why you often see people butting heads about things like PT, one guy saying it's a crash fest and another guy saying it never crashes, runs like a dream. Because they're doing completely different things. :)
I couldn't argue any of those points (or the ones you retracted :hihi: )...you'll notice rarely do I [i[argue[/i] hosts, I will give a :tu: to my host of choice but if others disagree I dont really care because it's familiar to me and does what I need (and then some, I'll never use or learn even 50% of it's capabilities). My point was why split hairs with Theo over something we all do (ever known someone to buy a new piece of gear like say a guitar and depending on who he's talking to the price means different things. "It's 1000 dollar guitar" he'll say to one person while to another it's I paid 100 bux for that"...kinda a double standard)...it doesn't seem to be "you" Lawrence, that's all.

Theo does have a lot of time spent with a lot of gear, it seems he gets a hard time for buying and selling so much. But to me that is an asset and not something to nit pick at or fault him for...live and let live right? :)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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For sure Hink. I appreciate Theo's daw tests. It takes a lot of time and effort to do all of that work. I wasn't knocking his testing, only saying his "conclusions" may sometimes be reaching a tiny bit, that's all.

I think his testing (his willingness to test) is great. We only slightly disagree on what those results actually mean, that's all.

At any rate, i am certainly not an enemy of Theo's. :)

We kinda probably shouldn't blindly accept conclusions about any testing without thinking it over a bit so, that's expected, some discussion about various conclusions drawn from tests. Pretty normal. And (given how often he tests) he's kind of an authority on that I guess so, some of that comes with the territory.

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No matter what is tested and where.. there is always someone who has trouble, and others that don't. Sonar x2 doesn't work here. Yet there are people that swear by it. Live is tremendous here, others say it's buggy as all get out.

All you can do is take a law of averages and hope for the best.

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Unfortunately, what Hibidy said is more or less the truth. However, with a properly installed and set up computer the situation changes a little bit, although the unstable programs will still be unstable and the stable programs will still be stable. :)

From what I gathered throughout the years, Sonar and Live take the unstable prize. Well configured and set up computer or not. Traction is also a bit low on the "chart" and that's a shame because I think it's one of the best DAWs regarding workflow. I myself am still using Reaper and Energy XT 1.4 inside it. Works like a charm, except that recently I had a hardware problem with one of the HDs and that can make your life a living nightmare. When HD is starting to fail, most of the time you won't notice it until it *really* fails. So when you start seeing weird blue screens you know it's something to do with the hardware failing.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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that's why I try not to get into DAW wars...I may be the only Samp user not even caring whether or not a new version comes out soon...64 bit was what I got the last update for and I cannot think of a thing I want for in a host at this time...but that's only me and I know many people feel the same way about their host of choice...why would I bother to change their mind, it's not like I get something out of it and my ways are typically so different than others that I figure who am I to tell them what to use...our experiences may just be very, very different :shrug:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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I stick to the 32-bit still and admire the x64 beta testers until x64 becomes really stable. Until then I still usually recommend people to stay away from x64 just for the sake of stability. However, it might be the time to finally call it quits for x86. But for my particular setup it will last a whole lot longer. I just don't use that much RAM whatever I do. I know how people use their DAWs and it doesn't surprise me that they need more RAM and CPU since they don't know about things like conserving polyphony and using good plugins that don't have GUIs [GUIs can usually take 90% of the RAM if not more]. I solely depend on my ears when I make stuff, only VU meters here and there [sleepy time records Mono Channel]. Also, regarding stability GUI-less plugins are more stable and that's a fact. I always say that programming a good [in every way] GUI is the greatest challenge and not many people get that. They just want their shiny knobs and buttons. I want stability and sound. I so often encounter plugins that sound nice but have badly programmed GUIs that make them crash. That's the most important reason why I am so opposed to GUIs and why I often ask for a GUI-less version of a plugin. Otherwise, I really don't mind the shiny knobs for as long as it sounds "shiny" and it doesn't crash due to GUI issues, if you get my drift. :hihi:
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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here one more thing i noticed. and no, im not bullshitting myself because i remember yesterday what it was. studio one with no vsti loaded just plain studio one, used about 2,200 mbs of memory, now it uses little more then 1,500 mbs. and before, in s1v2, when i minimized/maximized windows, i would get that buffering sound you get when your audio stutters. not anymore. its like a HUGE jump in performance now.

this is just no words awesome because i haven't finished a song since 2010 due to my pc running so shitty. i would just sit there and and start writing a song and then all of the sudden, the cpu would start getting higher and higher and more and more ram used so i would stop what i was doing and start over again. man one i finished with my halion sonic v2 stress test/song i will post it in the music forum, reformat with studio one as my chosen daw/old drivers/tweaks then start writing music again. so f**king happy :D
Last edited by AstralExistence on Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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x64 is fine. I've been x64 for over 4 years now and it's fine. BTW, to those using it your welcome from those of us who tested and pleaded for x64 native :hihi: It really was a struggle to get certain companies to change over but other than a couple of minor bumps in the road, it's mostly been a smooth ride (except sonar x2, that was just beyond bad) Even sonar 8.5 wasn't bad with the bridging. Reaper was good at bridging too. Though native is best.

I love x64.

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Yes X64 is fine for me also :-)

I switched to X64 one year ago because I felt it is the time to move on (well I'm late).

About the stability, I was playing with Retrologue/Studio Drummer in Cubase Elements 6 yesterday and I couldn't believe my eyes! The cpu spikes disappeared and Cubase was so stable! No, it was not a dream! I was awake and kicking!, so I jumped and tried to know the reason, Studio Drummer is stable and taking only about 10% of the cpu!! what happened?!

Well, I took off the headphone and I heard the laptop fan is little bit loud. I checked the performance in task manager! Oh, here you go! it was running at 3 Ghz. I didn't know how/why it chose to run this time at this speed, but I didn't like the fan's noise. I restarted and I checked the HP cool was on, and the cpu running cool between 0.78 and 2.0 Ghz. I started Cubase/Studio Drummer and then saw the cpu spikes. This is better, now it is normal :-D

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