DP8 Windows Useless Here!!!

[osiris]

Please see my post in Computers thread here. I was having a HORRIBLE problem on Win 7 and it was all because of idiot Windows Media Player trying to get metadata for all my wave files. ALL OF THEM.
Instructions are in the post. Maybe it will help. Maybe not,

[hibidy]

Machines, what I was getting at is that just because DP has been a solid program on mac since forever, doesn't mean that the same principles apply to the PC version. You accused him of trolling motu, which is harsh.

I hardly ever hear of people using DP8 around here on PC, I don't have a baseline of people yay/or nay for it. It's not like sonar where SO MANY people are frustrated that you can get a sense for if you need to throw in the towel.

Then again, you've got people like dsan who are miserable with live and I on the other hand just DIG it. Computers and setups are NOT created equal. I hope he gets it solved but if you have 3 hosts and 2 of them are fine, it's not likely that it's simple the user.

[machinesworking]

Machines, what I was getting at is that just because DP has been a solid program on mac since forever, doesn't mean that the same principles apply to the PC version. You accused him of trolling motu, which is harsh.

I hardly ever hear of people using DP8 around here on PC, I don't have a baseline of people yay/or nay for it. It's not like sonar where SO MANY people are frustrated that you can get a sense for if you need to throw in the towel.

Then again, you've got people like dsan who are miserable with live and I on the other hand just DIG it. Computers and setups are NOT created equal. I hope he gets it solved but if you have 3 hosts and 2 of them are fine, it's not likely that it's simple the user.

Again, I had an issue with Beat Clock in Live that was caused by a bad Logitech Driver. Beat Clock worked fine in DP and Logic, and I accused Live at the poor Ableton tech support guy of having crappy Beat Clock support! I was very righteous in my indignation. Using audio files recorded from all three there was occasionally a glitch in Logic and almost none in DP, Live was destroyed, timing wasn't even close! As it turns out all three poll Beat clock in different ways, DP a few times, Logic once and Live all the time. So DP polled, averaged out and stuck to it, and Live constantly polled. The bad mouse driver was constantly messing with Live's Beat Clock, making it bounce all over the place. Ableton were, if there was no bad drivers anyway, taking the 'safe' approach, and were suffering for it.
So in this case, it looked clearly like Live was at fault when it wasn't Ableton's fault at all. I went with a third party universal driver for the mouse and the problem disappeared, As soon as an update to Logitech's driver came out they had fixed this problem as well. Live had nothing to do with it.

This isn't an isolated case, if there are people reporting working DP8 Windows setups, (and there are!), then it's something in a system that's causing the issue. I detest the "user error" thing that people do, the only user error is assuming a piece of software is crap without doing the work to try to find the problem. As in my example, a problem can very easily affect just one DAW, and it can be no fault of the DAW programmers. The other example I can think of is Battery 2, it didn't destabilize Logic, but it crashed Live pretty regularly.

It's not user error that's the problem, it's user barely engaging at all, getting frustrated, and condemning with little or no evidence. You know? the tried and true "KVR Way™".

[hibidy]

I don't agree. I have pretty damning evidence against "you know who" and the fanbois ripped me several new ones. I don't think he was out of line at all. The ones who ARE out of line usually get the most praise Now, THAT is the kvr way (let's be honest, it's the internet way)

[LawrenceF]

if there are people reporting working DP8 Windows setups, (and there are!), then it's something in a system that's causing the issue.

And maybe that system cause is related to the coding, with it being the first Win version, and it's just not as diverse as it should be on Windows yet.

Mac systems all come from Apple. PC's come from everywhere.

Think PT. Runs great on some (approved) systems, crashes like clockwork on some others.

[machinesworking]

if there are people reporting working DP8 Windows setups, (and there are!), then it's something in a system that's causing the issue.

And maybe that system cause is related to the coding, with it being the first Win version, and it's just not as diverse as it should be on Windows yet.

Mac systems all come from Apple. PC's come from everywhere.

Think PT. Runs great on some (approved) systems, crashes like clockwork on some others.

The sin of PC users though is hardly any of you guys are willing to do the work to find out if it's a hardware configuration problem. To be fair though the same is true of mac users. The only difference is incompatible graphics cards or motherboards are non issues. <--- That said most developers attempt to run the most common boards etc. in their betas. PT have decided to concentrate on trusted combinations. I'm not sure if one can really argue against that?

I would make a guess that MOTU ran most combinations they could think of, and likely it's issues like my Logitech driver or errant audio cards. I wonder how many problems are coming from audio cards actually? One thing I could see MOTU doing that wouldn't be fair but extremely common in the tech industry would be to run the beta with their trusted team, who probably mostly run MOTU audio cards. That's one reason I've been suggesting borrowing a MOTU 828 or what not from a local music store. Bad communication between a third party audio card and DP could account for the weird thing of some people reporting lean CPU use and others reporting piggishness.

[hibidy]

This has taken a turn for the worst. I wish the OP well!

[lfm]

Best advice would be to wait until DP is officially supported by Waves for VSTs.

So DP is abandonware for me.
Do they expect anybody even close to do real work relying on their tool for anything - but playing around.

The amount of drama.... Yes you are right, only people who use Waves plug ins do "real work", everyone else is playing around.

Not quite what I meant.

Anybody wonder if DP is a good investment right now?
Answer: NO, it's not - right now.

When will it be safe to use:
Answer: When Waves plugins work, and they are officially listed by Waves, then you could be sure that all other VST plugins will work too.

Since they already has AU listed by Waves, threshold for getting VSTs for Windows up there should be low. And MOTU would be aware of any costs.

I did not have many crashes as I remember with DP, but Waves Element scanned ok, but was nowhere to be found to insert it in a project. Something to do with the unusuall listing of Element among effects I gather.

And Magix Independence hung during scan. I could never get it in there at all.

DP has some interesting features - but maybe v9.0 will have VST3 and really be up to date with market, I don't know.

[machinesworking]

I don't know if I would use Waves as a standard for other VSTs? I have a few and they require Waveshells. This isn't near a standard way to implement VSTs. Understood, official compatibility is a high water mark, but it certainly wouldn't guarantee anything else working properly.

[spaceman]

So, has the OP been in contact with MOTU yet?

[LawrenceF]

This has taken a turn for the worst. I wish the OP well!

Right. Machine seems to be against the simple idea of it maybe being somewhat buggy for some people because it's the very first windows version / port. To him, that's not even a possible contributing factor.

I mean MOTU has been coding Windows daws for like... a whole ....?

[jancivil]

I don't know if I would use Waves as a standard for other VSTs? I have a few and they require Waveshells. This isn't near a standard way to implement VSTs. Understood, official compatibility is a high water mark, but it certainly wouldn't guarantee anything else working properly.

VSL's representative stated publicly the other day 'we do not support WaveShell' in VE Pro. Known to them as WavesHell, he said. I have the RenBass they gave away and it works fine though.

[lfm]

I don't know if I would use Waves as a standard for other VSTs? I have a few and they require Waveshells. This isn't near a standard way to implement VSTs. Understood, official compatibility is a high water mark, but it certainly wouldn't guarantee anything else working properly.

That's not my point either.

I use Waves official support as minimum requirement for DP - not as standard for how to do things.

With that in place - any malfunction with any other plugin it most likely nothing to do with DP - but the plugin itself.

Waves got these 400 or so plugins - some use both VST and rewire at the same time etc. If a daw fix all this - you are on the safe side.

Since MOTU as a vendor has AU stuff approved, Windows stuff cannot be that far away.

[machinesworking]

This has taken a turn for the worst. I wish the OP well!

Right. Machine seems to be against the simple idea of it maybe being somewhat buggy for some people because it's the very first windows version / port. To him, that's not even a possible contributing factor.

I mean MOTU has been coding Windows daws for like... a whole ....?

I'm not against any idea that includes testing. What I'm against is people jumping to conclusions, which is exactly what has happened. Not one person complaining has listed out all the things they've done to attempt to isolate the problem. In fact they've said the exact opposite, they do not have the time or patience etc. So yeah, I'm against people coming to conclusions without evidence.

"It doesn't work" is not evidence that DP8 on Windows is at fault here. "It doesn't work with X graphic card, or Y audio card!" is at least evidence of incompatibility. Even then it isn't evidence that MOTU are to blame for the incompatibility. Badly written third party drivers can and do affect DAWs differently.

Look, it is very possible that MOTU have to do some work to get things working properly on the Windows side, but the facts are what they are, and not all incompatibility problems are the responsibility of the host. This leads to the simple conclusion that if you have problems with a DAW and do not do the basic things to isolate the problem, then you do not have enough information to say whether or not a host is at fault.

[machinesworking]

Waves got these 400 or so plugins - some use both VST and rewire at the same time etc. If a daw fix all this - you are on the safe side.

I suppose, but Waves are also a mature company, there are plenty of lone coders coding plug ins that can have issues. Waves compatibility won't mean that a plug in can't crash DP, and what with Waveshell it doesn't even mean that their current VST implementation isn't solid.