KVR Audio

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:45 pm

You have this issue up at VSL forums. I don't think VE Pro can be blamed for it per se; if you were using the LAN over a cable I would maybe look at that, but consistently an unreliable first note, no.

You're on Mavericks with Logic X, I honestly think your issue lies in there somewhere.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:47 pm

TheoM wrote:
Graham S wrote:But the delay is only on the first note, and it's actually even more prevalent when I turn the buffer down. It's kind of a click in or popping sound that only occurs with the first note.
I think it much be a ve pro and logic thing.
Could you humour me and try the process without VE pro and tell me what happens?

He has stated over there it doesn't happen with EXS in Logic. Logic and VE Pro are not so much in love, and VSL does not officially support Mavericks yet...

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:50 pm

Sorry jancivil it is almost 5am here and my eyes a little puffy and I missed have missed some details. My apologies.

Then as I said its definitely a logic and vsl thing, it has to be. I have logic open for periods of 12 to 14 hrs at a time,especially of late, where I've been writing more music than I have In years (hence barely being here), and it only happens precisely one single time, when logic is launched. Open a vi, hit a key and it's gone till I close logic. For some reason it persists in various scenarios using Vienna.

But logic works superbly on mavericks, I don't think its fair to say its a logic and mavericks thing, its a VIENNA and mavericks thing.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:57 pm

He didn't state the EXS bit here at all, I caught it at VSL forum. We have an interaction of Logic under Mavericks connecting to VE Pro (and a USB sound card, and SSD); if someone experienced this with say Cubase under Mavericks connecting to VEP all other things equal it's fair to isolate VEP vis a vis Mavericks and ignore Logic (and the sound card and the drive). I wouldn't.

I am not updating to Mavericks because I don't trust new OSes with significant changes (none of which seem to address enhancing audio work), and I saw them say 'you might want to test it on its own partition, but we don't recommend it at this time for this, or support it'.

"For some reason it persists in various scenarios using Vienna." It doesn't persist here, this has never occurred, consistently first note per se dropped. Occasionally having just started up an instrument may like to be activated before playback. Actually haven't seen that for some time and I think not at all in local host as he is using. So you're prejudiced against VSL and I am prejudiced against Mavericks.

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:32 pm

I haven't used Logic in years (I think v7); however, I had this problem then too.

jancivil's post on the start time indicator is what prompted me to enter this scene.

At that time, I noticed if my start point was at 0, I would get the missing first note. If I started my project farther into the timeline the problem disappeared.

I became accustomed to starting all my projects at least 2 bars in then. I also found this technique useful for those time I wanted to add something in front. This prompted me to start even later in the timeline and ultimately deleting forward measures if needed. It gave me more flexibility in developing a song.

This is just a FWIW post. Can't say this IS the cause of the current issue but for sure can say I have encountered the OP's problem and this is what fixed it for me. BTW - playback was always from 0.

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

kenporter · Post by **kenporter** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:36 am

Could this be caused by the fact that Logic is buffer switching? What I mean is if you play back a track the playback track is set to 1024 (depending on your setting) samples for example, but when you actually record to that track, the first time it receives a note it switches to the buffer setting of your audio interface. I've noticed this too, but got used to the fact that it seems to be doing this when switching between playback and monitoring of that track.

Not sure I explained this well.

Ken

Graham S · Post by **Graham S** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:42 pm

^^ how do i figure out if that's the case? Is there a way to find out the buffer setting of the individual track?

Andreas71 · Post by **Andreas71** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:27 pm

Hello to everyone. My first post to kvr forum:) I've been suffering also with Logic's first note delay problem. This feature/bug completely destroys my attempt to record several virtual instrument tracks at once. Especially when I try to record multiple VI's with arp...what a mess:( As far as I know there is nothing you can to do with the problem. This feature affects at least to Logic 9 and X.

This behavior is even explained in Logic 9 manual.

https://documentation.apple.com/en/logi ... section=24

kenporter · Post by **kenporter** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:18 pm

Yep, what Andreas71 has found in the manual is exactly what I tried to explain in my post. Nice find!

Ken

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:33 pm

jancivil wrote:He didn't state the EXS bit here at all, I caught it at VSL forum. We have an interaction of Logic under Mavericks connecting to VE Pro (and a USB sound card, and SSD); if someone experienced this with say Cubase under Mavericks connecting to VEP all other things equal it's fair to isolate VEP vis a vis Mavericks and ignore Logic (and the sound card and the drive). I wouldn't.

I am not updating to Mavericks because I don't trust new OSes with significant changes (none of which seem to address enhancing audio work), and I saw them say 'you might want to test it on its own partition, but we don't recommend it at this time for this, or support it'.

"For some reason it persists in various scenarios using Vienna." It doesn't persist here, this has never occurred, consistently first note per se dropped. Occasionally having just started up an instrument may like to be activated before playback. Actually haven't seen that for some time and I think not at all in local host as he is using. So you're prejudiced against VSL and I am prejudiced against Mavericks.

I'm not even going to get into this too heavily if you think I am prejudiced against VSL. considering it's the only "plugin" it happens with i just logically deduced that it's something about mavericks. Working in Cubase doesn't mean it's not a vsl issue. There are tons of plugins that work in one host and not another. Are we to blame the host in all these instances? I am leaving my input right here, cheers.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:35 pm

Graham S wrote:^^ how do i figure out if that's the case? Is there a way to find out the buffer setting of the individual track?

Whatever you have your buffer set at in audio preferences is the true buffer of a record armed or highlighted track in the arrange. A playback track's buffer is determined by your "process buffer size" setting. Small is 1024 samples, Medium 2048 and large 4096. Cheers.

Graham S · Post by **Graham S** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:36 pm

Ok, do you have any suggestion for what I should do to make it stop?

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:38 pm

dsan@mail.com wrote:I haven't used Logic in years (I think v7); however, I had this problem then too.

jancivil's post on the start time indicator is what prompted me to enter this scene.

At that time, I noticed if my start point was at 0, I would get the missing first note. If I started my project farther into the timeline the problem disappeared.

I became accustomed to starting all my projects at least 2 bars in then. I also found this technique useful for those time I wanted to add something in front. This prompted me to start even later in the timeline and ultimately deleting forward measures if needed. It gave me more flexibility in developing a song.

This is just a FWIW post. Can't say this IS the cause of the current issue but for sure can say I have encountered the OP's problem and this is what fixed it for me. BTW - playback was always from 0.

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

I always start everything at bar 3 because i put empty mid on instr tracks and blank audio files on audio tracks from bar 1-3 to completely flush the buffers when it's time to bounce. There is plenty of info on the web about this particular issue but i must admit i don't get dropped notes. That's the thing i actually LOVE about logic, that i have never had weird problems like that. The buffer issue i can deal with with my workaround above. My template is set up that way so it only needs to be done once anyway.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:40 pm

Graham S wrote:Ok, do you have any suggestion for what I should do to make it stop?

The issue in your first post? No sorry, I don't know as I don't use VSL, have only demoed it once last year. I firmly believe it's an issue with VSL and Logic combined, but did you consider just loading instruments into logic directly? I am curious why you would think VSL would help.. all it will do is add an extra layer and extra latency. Unless of course you are using it on a slave machine for extra power, then it's probably the best solution around. But if on one machine, i would suggest doing everything in Logic.

Graham S · Post by **Graham S** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:49 pm

Yeah that issue. Oh, ok thanks. Then maybe it is the case if VSL doesn't help with one computer. That leads me to another question that's a different topic: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=405235. I'm not sure if posting a link to another topic is against this forum's etiquette, so please let me know if so and I won't do it again.

Logic Pro X first note latency