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bharris22
KVRian
 
1351 posts since 2 Mar, 2010

Postby bharris22; Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:01 pm Re: Reason?

Why does it have to be either/or? Can't somebody appreciate Reason for what it has to offer, and other DAWs/VSTs for what they have to offer?
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thejonsolo
KVRAF
 
1915 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Charleston, SC

Postby thejonsolo; Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:19 pm Re: Reason?

It blows me away that some come on here to argue...

Then slam others for not making their point clearly or validating it properly.

It is as if some musicians have their own form of a period (yes, the attribute associated with women that occurs every 28 days, so that I am being clear).

And the arguments disgust me.

Reason is awesome and fantastic. Policies? Hmmm I don't get involved...I make music. I like Sweden too. Their taxes? Hmmm I don't get involved. I don't live there. If I did, I would....make music. I live in the United States. I like it. Its policies? I don't get involved...I make music.

Reason works. Cubase works. Even Bitwig works. All need improvement. All have fantastic sound and options. All are still growing. And I like what all are doing. I used to make music with two Realistic tape recorders my dad bought from Radio Shack. I still have some of the cassettes. It worked for me at the time, except when the "D" batteries got low, then it would drag. But nothing we make in this world is perfect. Ever.

Am I being too optimistic about working with these tools? No, I am making music. Except for today, when I feel the need to at least say the above.
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V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
6916 posts since 3 Jul, 2012, from Canada

Postby V0RT3X; Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:32 pm Re: Reason?

Apparently the Korg MS-20 will be joining the RE platform soon ;)

https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ost1453047

actually it might be a april fools joke though, i hope it's true though.
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3737 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:36 pm Re: Reason?

thejonsolo wrote:Reason is awesome and fantastic. Policies? Hmmm I don't get involved...I make music. I like Sweden too. Their taxes? Hmmm I don't get involved. I don't live there. If I did, I would....make music. I live in the United States. I like it. Its policies? I don't get involved...I make music.


Perfectly sensible.
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Biscotto
KVRist
 
174 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Postby Biscotto; Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:50 pm Re: Reason?

Some people here have a deep issue with Reason or and RE.
RE-sell policy... I give you a hint: Stay out of it if you can't deal with it.
I NEVER sell any of my tools. So, for users like me this is PERFECT.
For some of you is not.

But since buying Reason and the RE is "Mandatory", it must be so, for so many are unhappy being stuck with those RE that they (never?) bought under coercion, then, this is a very sad issue indeed!

:roll:
Reason.Reaper.Reaktor.u-he
Plenty....
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Tronam
KVRAF
 
1587 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Seattle, WA - USA

Postby Tronam; Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:09 pm Re: Reason?

highkoo wrote:Its an interesting phenomenon.
And most post-RE Reason threads are full of it.

i.e. Logic dictates certain likely scenarios, but feelings make those things uncomfortable for some people to even discuss.

This thread seemed to be looking at it logically for a minute.

And what logic would that be? Your conclusions that compare rack extensions to a sinking ship that should put Propellerheads out of business? That sounds more like bitter wishful thinking and doesn't make much logical sense to me. If the RE format had been unveiled as an open standard to be adopted by all DAWs to compete directly with VST/AU and never gained any traction or host/developer support, then maybe it could be characterized as a failure. Since it's exclusive to their own proprietary platform and optional, Propellerheads and dedicated Reason users only stand to gain from all the additional tools. Resellability is not a make-or-break proposition for everyone and the format isn't going away. The likelihood of it ever achieving plugin parity with VST is slim, but rack extensions continue to trickle in week after week. Vintage EQs from Kuassa and McDSP are soon to be released with a new Gforce synth on the horizon as well. Hardly impressive to the VST devoted, but I for one am happy for Reason users to see quality plugins continually be released for their DAW of choice.
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3737 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:55 pm Re: Reason?

You can attribute it to 'bitter wishful thinking' if you must, but I cant imagine how that makes any sense.
You can envision a bright future for Reason/REs, but I cant imagine how that makes any sense either.

Its a new format, vying for attention from developers who are otherwise occupied in a thriving market that is the long dominant, ubiquitous format, and now, competitor. Its not as robust of a development platform. It does not provide the same profit margin or marketshare/visibility. It is proprietary. It is not user friendly. It is locked to a closed and arguably outdated, arguably dying platform, that at best is resistant to change.

Its screamingly obviously a risky position that the Props are in.
Old users may have cause to stick around and play. But why would a new user sign up?

If I sound bitter, youre delusional.
I have no horse in this race. Im just observing the facts.
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krucial
KVRist
 
137 posts since 23 Mar, 2012

Postby krucial; Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:45 pm Re: Reason?

highkoo wrote:
Its a new format, vying for attention from developers who are otherwise occupied in a thriving market that is the long dominant, ubiquitous format, and now, competitor. Its not as robust of a development platform. It does not provide the same profit margin or marketshare/visibility. It is proprietary. It is not user friendly. It is locked to a closed and arguably outdated, arguably dying platform, that at best is resistant to change.


Spoken like a true bitter Reason hater. Vying for attention from developers. Um you act as if existing VST devs are the only ones capable of making plugins. A lot of excellent REs are from devs who are not major vst players. Selig, Jiggery-Pokery, Blamsoft etc. I for one do not care if major devs don't make a single RE. I was not using their products before anyway.

Its not a robust development platform? Are you a developer? Have you attempted to make an RE? Do you have the SDK? REs are very low maintenance because of the closed environment. There are quite a few REs that have not been update since REs were launch. Guess what they still work with R7, they will work with R8. I am sure devs would love it if VST were this way.

It may not provide the same profit share but its additional revenue for those that get involved. Again additional revenue this is a good thing.

REs are very user friendly. One centralize place to grab all your plugins. No need to email devs wait for serial. No need to hunt down bits to install plugins. I click one button and everyone of them gets installed. Most important they are all part of a pretty damn stable platform. All work with future version of Reason.

VST is also proprietary. Again VST technology is proprietary ask Steinberg.

Outdated dying platform? Do you have evidence to supports this claim? Have access to PH sales figures etc? Are you their accountant? Again provide evidence to support this claim.

I don't know what it is or what started but damn some folks on here have major issues with PH. What did they do to you folks? I have use various daws in the past not once have I taken it upon myself to jump in every thread to nit pick, spread misinformation about each product.

SMH
KFish needs to answer a simple question. What is an outdated sound?
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3737 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:41 pm Re: Reason?

:wheee:

Round and round in nonsense circles...
Ignoring the same points.

And again with 'bitter'.
How do you imagine someone is 'bitter' over this...?
Its like the only explanation you can come up with for why I would have a negative thing to say?
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liquidsound
KVRAF
 
2929 posts since 30 May, 2006, from Hollow Earth

Postby liquidsound; Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:07 pm Re: Reason?

highkoo wrote::wheee:

Round and round in nonsense circles...
Ignoring the same points.

And again with 'bitter'.
How do you imagine someone is 'bitter' over this...?
Its like the only explanation you can come up with for why I would have a negative thing to say?

But you are Ignoring the same following points:

Reason is an amazing tool and it seems that it escapes you quite well.
Your comments about developers is off the wall.

Actually, RE are WAY superior to their VST counterpart, and if can't figure this out yourself, you must know very little about Reason and it's modular environment.
RE are an exceptional value because of that additional power they acquire once they are ported to Reason. Again did you figure it why?

And, you should know that you can make absolutely awesome music with just a few plugins and some good skills. For that, Reason had, has, and definitely Will have more than anyone can ever master or use to full potential.

And I'm speaking from the point of view of someone that don't like RE selling point policy, but the facts are undeniable. I have no bought a single RE yet, but some of them are really fantastic.

One day I may change my mind and invest in them too.
....
MuLab.Ableton.Diva.Zebra.Repro-1.Dune2.The Legend.ArcSyn.Spire.TAL
Biscotto
KVRist
 
174 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Postby Biscotto; Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:30 pm Re: Reason?

liquidsound wrote:Actually, RE are WAY superior to their VST counterpart.....some of them are really fantastic.

+1
They have an advantage. A point I always share with others.

I don't regret a single dollar spent on RE and VST.
After all, these are my tools and the more I use them the more I grow with them.
Sell them? NEVER!
Reason.Reaper.Reaktor.u-he
Plenty....
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3737 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:18 pm Re: Reason?

:bang:
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liquidsound
KVRAF
 
2929 posts since 30 May, 2006, from Hollow Earth

Postby liquidsound; Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:27 pm Re: Reason?

highkoo wrote: :bang:
I'm sure there is a Brickwall RE :hihi:
MuLab.Ableton.Diva.Zebra.Repro-1.Dune2.The Legend.ArcSyn.Spire.TAL
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3737 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:33 pm Re: Reason?

:lol:
Im sure...
I bet its better than each of the five I have in at least a couple ways! ;)
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tonkatodd
KVRist
 
305 posts since 25 Jun, 2010

Postby tonkatodd; Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:03 pm Re: Reason?

stroker_ace wrote:
tonkatodd wrote:Picking one Chorus effect in the shop as an example doesn't really prove any point


Sure it does; it was a timely, real-world example. I was in the market for a chorus/mod plug-in, and I compared my options.

It was an incredibly easy decision to make.

tonkatodd wrote:as the same can be said pointing out a $500 reverb vst as an example not to use vst, Doesn't make any sense.


I agree that your point doesn't make any sense, as $500 reverb VSTs aren't the only option, and that's what this is about; options, both before and after you've made your purchases.

With VSTs, you can go freeware, donationware, you can spend $20 on a plug-in, or you can spend $200 on a plug-in. No matter what you're looking for, there will be tons of options.

And with some (most?) of the ones you pay for, you can sell their licenses should you outgrow or tire of them, and recoup some, if not all, of your money.

With rack extensions, you have a very tiny, tiny pool to pick from, they will more than likely be weaker than their VST counterparts, and once you buy one, you're stuck with it.

It's completely obvious which is the better system.

If it wasn't, Propellerheads would be a much bigger player in the DAW market, and devs would be lining up to produce rack extensions rather than heading for the hills.

They can exaggerate their sales numbers, but they can't hide the lack of rack extension developers, and that speaks volumes.

tonkatodd wrote:I use Reason almost everyday and have done for years and more so lately as some of the rack extensions are incredible. I can understand the work flow not being to everyone's taste but even with that in consideration I can't really believe any one musically creative not being able to create with it.


Who said that?

tonkatodd wrote:If someone cant then maybe they should try something else like drawing or painting maybe. Though if plug ins and instruments are only being used for trading on a second hand market then Reason definitely isn't the way to go.


No, it isn't, considering there is no second-hand market for rack extensions. :roll:

But what about people who don't like being stuck with one set of tools?

If you want to stay on a non-transferable tricycle all your life, knock yourself out, tonka toy, but don't pretend it's in any way superior, or even close to being equal, to the situation with VSTs.

If you make music like you argue a point, you should give away earplugs with every listen.


I clearly never assumed or suggested it was superior and why is using Reason mean that you are stuck with using one set of tools? Reason is just one of many I use. I also don't see where you get the facts for the claims that developers are "running for the hills"? Reason has a huge user base and if Rack Extensions weren't profitable then developers wouldn't be making multiple effects and instruments, Wouldn't they just make one then submit defeat and then move on? It becomes more and more clear as you rant that your claims are just based in some kind of hate and not in any fact. And hate for what? A software program. Grow up!
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