Reason 7.1 and Rack Extension...

[tibah]

Actually, the upgrade to incorporate those SDK features into Reason was free (7->7.1). Sure, it's based on the latest upgrade, but that's how development works. I'm sure 6.5 runs just fine with the Rack Extensions it can handle.

We had people with Reason 4 asking for RE support, so yea, that's that. I can understand the complaints compared to "we used to get this and that with Reason". Now, you can get new stuff anytime you want and make the rack way more personal.

To give a rather good example, I run Reason Essentials, everything for free since 1.0, including 1.5, 2.0 and now 2.1 (and Synchronous).

[neverenoughfunk]

not sure how else i can state this... first off... i do not want vst/i in Reason... again... i do not want vst/i in Reason... hopefully we can agree on this... REs today are not in the same class as vst/i... if they were there be no need to update the SDK... right? with that being said... it appears that there is a cost in making REs in the same class of vst/i... my point is... with vst/i that cost wasnt/isnt there... now... one can bend the arguement any ways they want to... but when VST when to VST2 that cost was not passed onto the customer... it appears that when the SDK is updated that cost will be past on to the customer... i am not comparing OS or any thing else... just the fact... that is appears that every new SDK will have a price tag... that didnt/doesnt happen with the VST platform... someone brought up VST3... but as of today... for me... VST3 has no effect in what i am doing... no cost involved...

[tibah]

So Propellerheads need to upgrade every version from 1 to 7 to always handle the latest incarnation of Rack Extensions ? Easy...

I think you have to realize that RE work way differently in many ways and I'm not speaking about general business model here, but the technology behind, being that integrated into the host software, combined with customer and developer demands.

[spaceman]

someone brought up VST3... but as of today... for me... VST3 has no effect in what i am doing... no cost involved...

So, what if you see a new plugin you really want that's VST3 only and your DAW only supports VST2. Are you going to complain to the DAW developer and/or the plugin developer that you have to pay for a DAW upgrade to be able to run that plugin?

[neverenoughfunk]

So Propellerheads need to upgrade every version from 1 to 7 to always handle the latest incarnation of Rack Extensions ? Easy...

NO!!! i am not saying that... i guess what i am saying is i cant afford Reason and its business model anymore... plus... how many incarnations of the SDK would have to take place before RE are on the same level as the vst/i that are on the market today... i.e. look at the izotope maximin RE compare to izotope ozone... the maxinim RE has only 1 of the 5 conpentents that ozone has... we could split hairs all day... i like Reason as much as the next person... but the cost to use Reason is getting expensive...

for the same price it would take for me to purchase the new acoustic guitar RE w/ the Reason 7 update... i purchased heavyocity dm307... how long do you think it will take Reason to have an RE like this... or how many SDK are we away from having a RE like this in Reason... i may be wrong... but for me that sounds expensive... in other words... i could wake up tomorrow with gear lust and 9.5 out 10 vst/i i purchase would work with my current setup... withup updating my host... not sure if i can make it clearer than that...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUysKE1S5us

[neverenoughfunk]

someone brought up VST3... but as of today... for me... VST3 has no effect in what i am doing... no cost involved...

So, what if you see a new plugin you really want that's VST3 only and your DAW only supports VST2. Are you going to complain to the DAW developer and/or the plugin developer that you have to pay for a DAW upgrade to be able to run that plugin?

i would have to cross that bridge when i get to it... VST3 is not an issue today... me wanting to purchase acoustic guitar Re was an issue for me... maybe if i want a plugin that was VST3 and i had to update my host... i am not sure... but i may complain too... personally... i do not go through life dealing with "if and ans"... actually... in my opinion that is a waste of time... i like to deal with the "hear and now"...

[tonkatodd]

So Propellerheads need to upgrade every version from 1 to 7 to always handle the latest incarnation of Rack Extensions ? Easy...

NO!!! i am not saying that... i guess what i am saying is i cant afford Reason and its business model anymore... plus... how many incarnations of the SDK would have to take place before RE are on the same level as the vst/i that are on the market today... i.e. look at the izotope maximin RE compare to izotope ozone... the maxinim RE has only 1 of the 5 conpentents that ozone has... we could split hairs all day... i like Reason as much as the next person... but the cost to use Reason is getting expensive...

for the same price it would take for me to purchase the new acoustic guitar RE w/ the Reason 7 update... i purchased heavyocity dm307... how long do you think it will take Reason to have an RE like this... or how many SDK are we away from having a RE like this in Reason... i may be wrong... but for me that sounds expensive... in other words... i could wake up tomorrow with gear lust and 9.5 out 10 vst/i i purchase would work with my current setup... withup updating my host... not sure if i can make it clearer than that...

The new sdk introduces support for large sample based instruments. One quite similar to the Heavyocity Dm307 as thats just a Kontakt sample library right? So my guess you won't have to wait long before something like that turns up in Reason. Software companies are isolating formats more and more to retain customers and it's getting more and more expensive to operate so upgrade prices and relentless marketing campaigns are only going to get worse. I think Propellerheads have an advantage with the future market, Even though RE is young now when it's developed further the market will be very different. I can understand your position in constantly forking out for upgrades but really it's just going to get worse. I've sold a lot lately to cut down the damage and deciding to stick with just the essentials so to speak but even then I find the Reason upgrade prices fair as it's a fairly decent night out on the town in comparison and with the fun and productivity I get with using Reason it's worth it. But the market is going to get much worse.

[spaceman]

someone brought up VST3... but as of today... for me... VST3 has no effect in what i am doing... no cost involved...

So, what if you see a new plugin you really want that's VST3 only and your DAW only supports VST2. Are you going to complain to the DAW developer and/or the plugin developer that you have to pay for a DAW upgrade to be able to run that plugin?

i would have to cross that bridge when i get to it... VST3 is not an issue today... me wanting to purchase acoustic guitar Re was an issue for me... maybe if i want a plugin that was VST3 and i had to update my host... i am not sure... but i may complain too... personally... i do not go through life dealing with "if and ans"... actually... in my opinion that is a waste of time... i like to deal with the "hear and now"...

Ok, the "here and now" is that there's an RE that only runs on Reason v7+.
You don't have v7. End of story.

Have a nice day.

PS. ... ...

[neverenoughfunk]

The new sdk introduces support for large sample based instruments. One quite similar to the Heavyocity Dm307 as thats just a Kontakt sample library right? So my guess you won't have to wait long before something like that turns up in Reason.

you do not have to sell me on Reason or Props... i have a copy of Rebirth and Recycle from when steinberg distributed it... long time user of Props products... i see you use the phrase... "you wont have to wait long before something like that turns up in Reason"... first think i would like to say is "a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush"... you talk of waiting... why wait? if you started with Reason version 1... you waited a long time for midi-out... you waited a long time for audio... how about slicing/dicing samples... group-tracks... the list goes on... individuals are still waiting for updated midi editing in Reason...

Software companies are isolating formats more and more to retain customers and it's getting more and more expensive to operate so upgrade prices and relentless marketing campaigns are only going to get worse. I think Propellerheads have an advantage with the future market, Even though RE is young now when it's developed further the market will be very different.

only time will tell... my point is that developement looks/feels expensive...

I can understand your position in constantly forking out for upgrades but really it's just going to get worse. I've sold a lot lately to cut down the damage and deciding to stick with just the essentials so to speak but even then I find the Reason upgrade prices fair as it's a fairly decent night out on the town in comparison and with the fun and productivity I get with using Reason it's worth it. But the market is going to get much worse.

[/quote]

again... one could never knock what Reason is capable of... but with my current set-up... i do not have to wait for anything... with my current set-up... the future is now...

[neverenoughfunk]

Ok, the "here and now" is that there's an RE that only runs on Reason v7+.
You don't have v7. End of story.

Have a nice day.

PS. ... ...

i glad you finally understand... it took longer than first thought... sad but true... that RE only runs on Reason v7+... end of story... back to something i could afford... the point of the thread...

you have a nicer day!!!



i got the link to the punctuation... it appear the rest of the forum members understand what i wrote... now i understand why it took you moment...

[tonkatodd]

you do not have to sell me on Reason or Props... i have a copy of Rebirth and Recycle from when steinberg distributed it... long time user of Props products... i see you use the phrase... "you wont have to wait long before something like that turns up in Reason"... first think i would like to say is "a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush"... you talk of waiting... why wait?

Sure absolutely. I was just answering your question as to how long we would wait for something like that turn up in Reason and I was just pointing out that upgrade pricing and isolated formats are going to get worse because it was something that concerned you that's all. Take care

[EnGee]

I'm not against the Rack Extensions idea, but isn't it a waste of effort to reinvent the wheel? I think it would be better if they support the VST/VSTi huge market but with a smart wrapper that still has the Reason's spirit (modularity) by for example supplying every VSTi/VST plugin with some INs and OUTs to/from some main parts in the synth/effect, how? Well, it can be done by the plugin developer and call it Reason's edition.

LOL. This is essentially what RE is doing but in a way more efficient manner. You guys are just gonna have to accept Reason as it is and move on. Besides if they did support VST we would not have many of the great REs that are available now. I don't own any VST and don't care to.

Glad that my post made you laugh!

How the RE is "a way more efficient" than the VST?!

They didn't support the VST because that would kill their planned business model, which means less money for them and less control as well.

Yes, I like Reason a lot, but as a great modular workstation with optional cartridges (Rack Extenstions). I don't need these cartridges because I already have better sound sources (that I also can sell or trade with when I want).

[ezelkow1]

^

For what neverenough was getting at though, that is my concern. I can understand needing to upgrade a host after 5 years or whatever to support some new standard, but to implement a standard in a version of a host, and then obsolete that support within a year has me worried. What happens when they upgrade the sdk for better visual RE support, better/more efficient or cpu friendly processing, and on and on. Are these going to obsolete every previous version forcing you to upgrade just to gain efficiency or use some new RE's?

When you look at vst, its been 8 years since 2.4, before that it was 7 years for the jump from 2 to 2.4. For RE's its been one year, and a forced upgrade to get the new features, that bothers me. If they are doing such rapid and big sweeping changes to the sdk at such a rapid rate that requires an entire host version upgrade these should have either been considered at conception of the sdk or planned in such a way that the sdk is separate from a reason upgrade. After all that is the point of an freaking SDK, the interface stays the same, the underlying changes are not observed by the end user nor does it impact them

It just reeks of money grab to me and forced obsolescence. This is coming from someone who owns reason, I do like it, but I only own maybe 2 RE's, either for free or when they were dirt cheap due to the no transfer policy and uncertain future of the sdk and host combination

[tonkatodd]

^

For what neverenough was getting at though, that is my concern. I can understand needing to upgrade a host after 5 years or whatever to support some new standard, but to implement a standard in a version of a host, and then obsolete that support within a year has me worried. What happens when they upgrade the sdk for better visual RE support, better/more efficient or cpu friendly processing, and on and on. Are these going to obsolete every previous version forcing you to upgrade just to gain efficiency or use some new RE's?

When you look at vst, its been 8 years since 2.4, before that it was 7 years for the jump from 2 to 2.4. For RE's its been one year, and a forced upgrade to get the new features, that bothers me. If they are doing such rapid and big sweeping changes to the sdk at such a rapid rate that requires an entire host version upgrade these should have either been considered at conception of the sdk or planned in such a way that the sdk is separate from a reason upgrade. After all that is the point of an freaking SDK, the interface stays the same, the underlying changes are not observed by the end user nor does it impact them

It just reeks of money grab to me and forced obsolescence. This is coming from someone who owns reason, I do like it, but I only own maybe 2 RE's, either for free or when they were dirt cheap due to the no transfer policy and uncertain future of the sdk and host combination

Rising upgrade prices in a increasing time is certainly cause for concern but the market 7 years ago was very different. Never the less having to constantly fork out for upgrades is a pain. The market for professional/consumer software in the near future will be mostly cloud/subscription based where we would have to pay 6 month -12 month subscription with the 6 month price being slightly more expensive and only being able to access the software offline with certain features unavailable until we renew the subscription. Adobe cloud, Avid anywhere, Cad systems and I suspect Apple may follow suit but who knows what Apple is planning really. I don't know which frequency I would want to "have" to get updates, Either more expensive but less frequent or less expensive but more frequent?

[spaceman]

i glad you finally understand... it took longer than first thought... sad but true... that RE only runs on Reason v7+... end of story... back to something i could afford... the point of the thread...

Strange ... I thought that the point of the thread was ... for you ... to bitch about the fact that Propellerheads ... charge money for upgrades?