Realigning MIDI Clock Delay on Cubase 4.5 (PC)

[Mushy Mushy]

I'm syncing a TT303 to Cubase 4.5 via MIDI clock, and therefore using the TT's internal sequencer.

However, the clock seems to be 3/16ths out of alignment (ie, after recording I need to nudge the section back this much for it to be in sync again).

The project is 148BPM so my quick and dirty maths tells my the delay is 304.053ms.

How can I instruct Cubase to delay everything but the MIDI clock by this amount?


Mucho gracias.

[Mushy Mushy]

My internet research tells me I may need to enable System Timestamp, which is what I'll do.

In the meantime though, any other thoughts?

[tehlord]

I've had to resort to midi channel delay to compensate for this.

I'm assuming you're using a USB midi interface?

There's just an inherent delay using those that I've never found the answer to.

At a buffer setting of 128 samples I recall having to delay my external midi channels by -40ms, although that's just lining up the cubase metronome to a click from the synth by ear.

[Mushy Mushy]

I've had to resort to midi channel delay to compensate for this.

I'm assuming you're using a USB midi interface?

There's just an inherent delay using those that I've never found the answer to.

At a buffer setting of 128 samples I recall having to delay my external midi channels by -40ms, although that's just lining up the cubase metronome to a click from the synth by ear.

Oh bugger, that sounds cumbersome.

I'm using a Midex8 which was meant to be rock solid (for its time). And since then I've teamed it with a faster PC so it should be ok....

I'll play with the MIDI delay tonight.

[ZenPunkHippy]

The Midex8 might be rock solid on it's own (or when syncing to other hardware sequencers) but the MIDI clock coming out of your computer is not. This is why the Innerclock Systems Sync Gen described in the gear thread is so useful (if a little pricey ...).

Peace,
Andy.

[Mushy Mushy]

The Midex8 might be rock solid on it's own (or when syncing to other hardware sequencers) but the MIDI clock coming out of your computer is not. This is why the Innerclock Systems Sync Gen described in the gear thread is so useful (if a little pricey ...).

Peace,
Andy.

Ok true. And yes in an ideal world I'd be buying the ICSSG.

But what I can't comprehend is this. Millions of people (source unverified ) are syncing hardware and it's in sync, so why isn't mine. I'm not expecting it to be asbolutely sample accurate, but I wan't it workable at least. Surely this is possible

I really don't have the cash now to be buying more kit. Lord knows I want to though

[ZenPunkHippy]

I think the idea that loads of other people are successfully syncing hardware with Cubase (or any other host) is not actually true. I believed it was for years and kept trying but always ended in failure (particularly annoying is the drift over the length of a full track). Cirklon helped because it can send MTC, but still not perfect (drift ...).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, would be great to know how!

Anyway, there might be a cheaper solution than InnerClock, perhaps Silent Way is worth checking out - someone mentioned that a while back on another (hardware) forum but I didn't verify.

Otherwise, it's down to manually aligning audio after it's been recorded ...

[Mushy Mushy]

I think the idea that loads of other people are successfully syncing hardware with Cubase (or any other host) is not actually true. I believed it was for years and kept trying but always ended in failure (particularly annoying is the drift over the length of a full track). Cirklon helped because it can send MTC, but still not perfect (drift ...).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, would be great to know how!

Anyway, there might be a cheaper solution than InnerClock, perhaps Silent Way is worth checking out - someone mentioned that a while back on another (hardware) forum but I didn't verify.

Otherwise, it's down to manually aligning audio after it's been recorded ...

So with the InnerClock, does this become the central clock and Cubase then slaves off this?

I can't see how this would work though as my MIDI parts will still need to be in Cubase.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Useful thread on Gearslutz comparing InnerClock to Silent Way (which is cheaper, but needs a Euro Rack ...):

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... epers.html

So with the InnerClock, does this become the central clock and Cubase then slaves off this?

Cubase still uses it's own internal clock. The audio pulses sent from the InnerClock plugin to the Sync Gen allow the box to generate perfectly synced MIDI clock (separate to the Cubase clock) for the hardware sequencer to sync to.

I can't see how this would work though as my MIDI parts will still need to be in Cubase.

The MIDI notes sent out of Cubase to the TT are going to suffer from jitter regardless of whether you have proper sync via the InnerClock device. The sync box is really for syncing the built in TT / hardware sequencer with your Cubase session.

One thing thing to consider is that MIDI triggering of analogue gear that also has an analogue sequencer (such as the TT / 303) generally does sound as good / authentic as direct CV triggering. This is why the internal TT / 303 sequencer is so important.

The tightness of the sequence is just one aspect that is affected. If you recall the other thread where there is detailed information about capacitors reaching full charge etc, if the timing of notes is off by a little bit then the charge of various components as notes are triggered would be different.

This is proper train spotting territory, though

I guess the TT accepts program changes? One way to go (assuming the Sync Gen is used) is to sequence the TT internally, and select patterns via MIDI program change.

[ZenPunkHippy]

So now we are herding goats

There is a point where we get tied up in all this technical B.S. and forget how to write tunes.

[Mushy Mushy]

Useful thread on Gearslutz comparing InnerClock to Silent Way (which is cheaper, but needs a Euro Rack

I'll have a read through that tonight.

Cubase still uses it's own internal clock. The audio pulses sent from the InnerClock plugin to the Sync Gen allow the box to generate perfectly synced MIDI clock (separate to the Cubase clock) for the hardware sequencer to sync to.

This makes sense. I've since been to the site and reviewed a few of the set-up diagrams.

One thing thing to consider is that MIDI triggering of analogue gear that also has an analogue sequencer (such as the TT / 303) generally does sound as good / authentic as direct CV triggering. This is why the internal TT / 303 sequencer is so important.

I do like to use the internal sequencers as often as possible, which is why the sync is becoming so frustrating for me. I have a 101 and the TT that both have internal sequencers (hopefully, one day a 909 will be added too). So I am starting to be sold on the InnerClock. They're ~£370 which isn't too bad I suppose. I am starting to come around. Damn you

The tightness of the sequence is just one aspect that is affected. If you recall the other thread where there is detailed information about capacitors reaching full charge etc, if the timing of notes is off by a little bit then the charge of various components as notes are triggered would be different.

Let's not go there then hey

[Mushy Mushy]

So now we are herding goats

There is a point where we get tied up in all this technical B.S. and forget how to write tunes.

F*ck it, I'll just go back to samples

[Mushy Mushy]

Andy, how CPU intensive is the InnerClock software?

I'm still on a Core2Duo and XP so I'm cautious of hungry software.

[ZenPunkHippy]

CPU requirements are close to non-existent. Tested on an i7 from 2009, but I'd expect similar results on an earlier CPU. Might be worth contacting him directly to find out, he (Dave) is always responsive to emails.

[Mushy Mushy]

CPU requirements are close to non-existent. Tested on an i7 from 2009, but I'd expect similar results on an earlier CPU. Might be worth contacting him directly to find out, he (Dave) is always responsive to emails.

Great answer all round