Will Cubase switch to subscription plan?

[Hink]

you must work for Bank of America or something Love it

<snip>......

Don't I wish. In fact I work for a greedy not-for-profit company that uses phrases such as "Convenience fees" in their day to day business practices.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

oh you work for the NFL

[lfm]

If this could be done per month basis, some could actually save money if they don't need Cubase for more than for short projects now and then. But I doubt any SW company would be so keen on introducing this as they know they will lose revenue versus one-time purchase of fixed 12-month rental costs.

I think it's messy to also make system to shut down license - if a rental model.

I read up on how Avid do it on Media Composer - and it's about making contact with iLok account within four days - so you must have that computer online at least for that purpose once a month.

But if this is transparent or also need further manual intervention to reactivate a new monthly license, I don't know.

Good part would be low initial cost - first months fee - could also bring more customers to the table that make up for some that exit annual stuff.

[sin night]

Subscription makes sense for developers to have a regular income of money, but not for users (except you need a tool for a limited amount of time and your needs don't justify the full price to buy it). I want to pay once and be free to use the tools without any string attached.
I keep on buying the updates if I can and if I need them (and if you keep your system quite up to date, you definitely need them, even before taking in consideration the new features), so it's almost a subscription model, but I can still run the older versions of the software, I can decide when to upgrade (I can wait a month or two in order to wait for the first reports, or just because I have other planned expenses) and so on...

I want to make music, not to deal with all these issues!

[lfm]

There is some confusion of "subscription".

There are two kinds:
a) better described as rental model licensing
b) upgrade/support plan subscription of owned licenses

a) stop working after stop paying
b) usually let you own and use the last version you received as long as you like - even after letting subscription lapse.

And in a way, Cakewalk model monthly downpayments is a third model, you could say.
Unless you fulfill 12 month paying license revert to last 12 months version.

And to create even more confusion there are different models how you can re-enter a subscription - with or without penalty.

a) rental is just to start pay and use again - no penalty - even for Avid products.
b) owned licenses range from no penalty, like in the Cakewalk case.
In Avid case you cannot re-enter - you have to buy new license.

So I returned the Avid package - actually on my table here - and went for Cakewalk again.
I really like the Sonar software, the people making it improving every aspect if developing it(my showstopper are fixed) - and even like the new subscription membership. The feeling is a bit like christmas all year round - some continuous anticipation what is to come, and it's not one year ahead. Running Sonar Artist not every new feature will be fore Artist - but still - not as stripped as Cubase Elements.

So I think crucial part is - what happends when you let subscription lapse - if to like subscription or not.

So focus on not so much on the word "subscription" - but check if rental or not and what happends when it lapses.

And pricing of course - that annual cost is decent and within your range.

In the case Sonar Artist - $49 annually is ok - but it's a full 50% of new price $99.
Cakewalk favour those buying the more expensive versions a bit - annual cost is less than 50% of new license. Sonar Professional new $199 - annual $99. Platinum new $499 - annual $199.

So is the pricing model favouring staying on - year after year....and good balance in power between customer and vendor - can you mark a disappointment staying out without too much penalty.

In the case of Avid you don't get a good balance. Pay or buy new.
Cakewalk - yes, you stay off renewing until there are things you feel worth paying for - no other penalty than no upgrades, which you felt not worth paying for anyway.

So anything Cakewalk style - no problem.

[Image-Line]

I still love my free lifetime update!

The good thing about paying over and over - is that you also have leverage on vendor to really provide something new. You can pay, or not pay....

As an example, I talked to Image Line 2010 when my daw arrived to run all in x64.

No nothing was on the rise for x64, they told me.

At that time there were x64 versions of Sonar since 4 years back, and it took until 2014 as I remember to FL in x64. That is 8 years behind.

So, most of the time - you get what you pay for....

This is just not true.

The delay for FL Studio 64 Bit had nothing to do with Lifetime Free Updates and everything to do with the fact Delphi did not (then) compile to 64 Bit. We had no control over that.

But what did we do? We released FL Studio 10 in March 2011 that had 64 Bit plugin support and extended memory management features that allowed users to use any amount of memory they liked. We provided solutions to the memory issue as best we could, as soon as we could. For free.

AFAIKS FL Studio users had no dead-end issues doing whatever they liked with respect to 64 Bit advantages FL Studio from 2011 to 2014.

We also provide updates and support that are second to none in this industry. FL Studio 12 is going to raise the bar even higher we have some major added value surprises for existing and new customers. We are also one of the first DAW platforms to fully embrace high DPI scaling (for the UI, native plugins and VSTs) plus multi-touch support.

...and yes, for free, for the 12th time.

http://www.image-line.com/flstudio/history.php

Computer Music Magazine recently asked us what we thought of subscription software models. Here's what we said

"If you need to sell something as a subscription it’s a sign the up-front price has exceeded market expectations and values. There are many variables, but usually subscriptions mean paying a lot more in the long run. After all, this is a pricing ‘strategy’. Worse when the plan doesn’t allow you to keep using the software you paid for, if you quit the subscription. Our Lifetime Free Update payment ‘strategy’ for FL Studio charges a reasonable, once only, fee and then all future updates are included, no more to pay, ever! Now, that’s a pricing strategy we feel good about."

Regards Scott

[lfm]

I still love my free lifetime update!

The good thing about paying over and over - is that you also have leverage on vendor to really provide something new. You can pay, or not pay....

As an example, I talked to Image Line 2010 when my daw arrived to run all in x64.

No nothing was on the rise for x64, they told me.

At that time there were x64 versions of Sonar since 4 years back, and it took until 2014 as I remember to FL in x64. That is 8 years behind.

So, most of the time - you get what you pay for....

This is just not true.

The delay for FL Studio 64 Bit had nothing to do with Lifetime Free Updates and everything to do with the fact Delphi did not (then) compile to 64 Bit. We had no control over that.

But what did we do? We released FL Studio 10 in March 2011 that had 64 Bit plugin support and extended memory management features that allowed users to use any amount of memory they liked. We provided solutions to the memory issue as best we could, as soon as we could. For free.

AFAIKS FL Studio users had no dead-end issues doing whatever they liked with respect to 64 Bit advantages FL Studio from 2011 to 2014.

We also provide updates and support that are second to none in this industry. FL Studio 12 is going to raise the bar even higher we have some major added value surprises for existing and new customers. We are also one of the first DAW platforms to fully embrace high DPI scaling (for the UI, native plugins and VSTs) plus multi-touch support.

...and yes, for free, for the 12th time.

http://www.image-line.com/flstudio/history.php

Computer Music Magazine recently asked us what we thought of subscription software models. Here's what we said

"If you need to sell something as a subscription it’s a sign the up-front price has exceeded market expectations and values. There are many variables, but usually subscriptions mean paying a lot more in the long run. After all, this is a pricing ‘strategy’. Worse when the plan doesn’t allow you to keep using the software you paid for, if you quit the subscription. Our Lifetime Free Update payment ‘strategy’ for FL Studio charges a reasonable, once only, fee and then all future updates are included, no more to pay, ever! Now, that’s a pricing strategy we feel good about."

Regards Scott

Exactly what was not true?
Taken from response by a ticket Sept 2010:
"Maximus will run without a problem on Windows 64bit.
There are no plans to update the plugin to a 64bit version."

Nothing about any delay due to Delphi etc?

And about Sonar and FL Studio - what was not true?

What you say - there is no correlation between not having manpower and not enough money coming in?
Reworking a product line with another compiler that has a future takes manpower.

In the 90's I used Watcom, Symatec C++ compiler and Microsoft compilers. Also looking at Delphi, but felt painting myself into a corner being dependent on a small vendor. Left all behind but Microsoft - as sad as it is they dominate and are reliable.

Are any but Microsoft still there?
So Delphi was severely delayed as 64-bit - was that maybe due to lacking manpower and resources?
And updates were no free either.

A bit weird to make a case of that only new sales is a successful business model. What you can do depends on the resources you have.

I have nothing against Image-Line, I wish you good luck - sincerely!
My comment was sincere and correct too.

Some seem to think not paying is a good thing - and they go to any length not paying, even stealing through warez downloads.

I put some remarks why it is better to pay - and what you loose out on.
It's telling a vendor - what you do I like - please continue.

But I'm not raised with the presumption that everything should be free.

[Image-Line]

Exactly what was not true?

That our business model is somehow responsible for the later arrival of FL Studio 64 Bit. Which is what you were arguing. "You get what you pay for". If not that, what?

As for your ticket, our support staff are careful never make promises about what may be coming.

Regards Scott

[Dazed Veins]

Lol, to compare the subscription model to life long updates is too absurd for words. My 2c.

[lfm]

Exactly what was not true?

That our business model is somehow responsible for the later arrival of FL Studio 64 Bit. Which is what you were arguing. "You get what you pay for". If not that, what?

As for your ticket, our support staff are careful never make promises about what may be coming.

Regards Scott

Not promises - just a "we are working on that" is enough.

Were you going to wait forever for Delphi?
Did they say "we have no plans to make 64-bit compiler" and you were to wait either way?

We let our business go down the drain either way:
- Sorry, Delphi was not updated we will stay behind in technology as 32-bit forever.

The obvious response for a company having the resources would be to rework the product line with a compiler available as 64-bit.
Tough call to do - but still you have to survive as a business.

Do anybody think that - no updates are free updates?
Well, it can be if company is not there anymore.
It does happend from time to time - just looking at KVR.
Some announce closing down, some discontinue like Orion.

To throw money in the direction of a company you want them to have a future. Especially for software - you expect future updates and fixes due to new operating system version etc.

[Image-Line]

Were you going to wait forever for Delphi?
Did they say "we have no plans to make 64-bit compiler" and you were to wait either way?

The obvious response for a company having the resources would be to rework the product line with a compiler available as 64-bit. Tough call to do - but still you have to survive as a business.

You are making a lot of assumptions here. We did in-fact have contingencies well in hand, that were never used.

As for the rest of what you said. People have been telling us that Lifetime Free Updates is a flawed model for over 16 years now. History speaks for itself.

Regards Scott

[lfm]

Were you going to wait forever for Delphi?
Did they say "we have no plans to make 64-bit compiler" and you were to wait either way?

The obvious response for a company having the resources would be to rework the product line with a compiler available as 64-bit. Tough call to do - but still you have to survive as a business.

You are making a lot of assumptions here. We did in-fact have contingencies well in hand, that were never used.

As for the rest of what you said. People have been telling us that Lifetime Free Updates is a flawed model for over 16 years now. History speaks for itself.

Regards Scott

And I'm happy for you.
As I said, have nothing against Image-Line.

But stating that - larger resources, more things can happend faster.
That most of the time you get what you pay for - staying by that comment.

Some seem to feel that paying for upgrades is all bad.
Tried to make another view on that.

Being a customer on a market - is a dialog with everybody too.
And releaving yourself on some of your money - is a strong statement.

[Coxy]

The reason that professional grade software is going over to subscription is that within a couple of years people will realise there's nothing new to be added and therefore they don't need to pay to upgrade any more.

They want to get you all used to the pay to use model before you stop buying, then once the single payment model is gone you'll no longer have a choice.

What he said.

And I'm not even the cynical type.

Quote from the sopranos that seems relevent.

You know, your father and me started that game over 30 years ago. We were talking one day about how the credit card companies, you know, they work their angle. They didn’t care what the f**k you bought as long as you didn’t pay all at once. They juice you to death. And you thank them for letting you have a card. You’d rather be juiced then pay all at once.

[memyselfandus]

Will they? I sort of hope so.. then I don't have to consider Cubase anymore and will be closer to getting out of daw purgatory and just picking one.

[She Changed Her Mind]

I don't think a subscription plan is a bad idea.

It's rather that these guys planning on adding stuff (which thus also could take away a certain bond between the user and the company) do know what they are busy with.

Goodwill is hard to gain, simply to lose.
It's like a school of fishes, you have to keep pushing the limits as long as they are not too aware of it.

Otherwise there would not be a school of fishes for too long. In human terms it will keep them happy.
Apparently.

What else could be the fun of it?

[Dúnedain]

Does the subscription model really gives devs a more predictable and smooth cash flow? I mean, users can cancel their subscription after all. And if a competitor has a subscription model as well, then there is even not a financial penalty for users to switch

I really do not like it and glad Logic does not have it. Imo it are bad boy wall street tactics i do not want to be screwed by. (The suckers are already screwing us with their big bonusses)