Why are developers leaving the Studio One team?

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Seriously, when someone really wants to steal something, he/she'll find a way to open the door nonetheless, even if it's locked, in many cases.
Yeah... so why lock anything ever? It's just stupid right? All the major software companies should just all stop doing it so we all can use whatever we want as long as we want and if we're so inclined morally, never pay for any of it or not have any real hassle trying to use it without paying for it. That copy protection stuff is just so... 1995. :lol:

Sounds like a script for a really good Disney movie where we all get Ferrari's, hot chicks and loads of cash at the end when our hit records land. :hihi:
Last edited by LawrenceF on Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LawrenceF wrote:
chk071 wrote:Ok, fair enough. But you said Çockos don't treat you like thieves, so I guess it's fair enough to ask why you feel treated like a thief by other companies when all they do is try to prevent piracy?
You aren't the only one who grows somewhat weary of hearing that old talking point... "They don't treat us like thieves." :hihi:

There's many good and logical and fully valid arguments to be made in favor of that sales model for Cockos, and who they are, but that isn't one of them. To suggest that it's somehow "unfair" for a developer to choose to take steps to help protect their intellectual property from unauthorized use or duplication is pure nonsense... and smacks of entitlement.

That's a really great model for Cockos. An identical model would likely send Cubase to bankruptcy court. Sure, use our $500 and $1700 products as much as you want and only pay for them if you're really happy, we trust you. :hihi:
I never said any different and I agree on that, already expanded on that and said pretty much same things, except I don't mind that or feel that is unfair, I cherish absence of it and feel more into it because of it, why is so hard to understand that suddenly, when there's someone who doesn't do what is usual, you feel different about usual, game changed, I have freedom to buy whatever I feel good about and see fitting, others can do whatever they want with their thing, their product their thing, my money, my choice to go along or don't. :tu:

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chk071 wrote:What about a warehouse with cameras for observation? Everyone suspected a thief or a valid method to prevent theft?
Ask the workers at Amazon! All I can tell is going through three or four security gates with metal detectors and security guards and then being observed every moment during work with cameras & lead personal and being tracked with your scanner ain't fun at all. I rather work for small companies who treat me as the sincere person I am, I'll never go to Amazon again! :wink:
Last edited by Tricky-Loops on Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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why is so hard to understand
It's not. :hihi: What's apparently hard for some (not you) to understand is that not everyone could actually do that and be successful doing it, because some keep implying that everyone should probably be doing it, which is pretty silly.

Almost - nobody - does it, and for very good reasons, not because they're all assholes who don't like their customers. :lol:

So it's not us - we who fully understand the value of that model to Cockos - it's them, those who regularly imply that everybody could or should do that and if they use copy protection they're being "unfair"... or "treating people like thieves". See Schwa's plugins that also employ a similar model...
We believe that virtually all people will do the right thing when given the chance to do so, and that users should not be punished for the actions of other bad actors. So with that in mind, here’s how our licensing works. [on your honor with minimal nagging, otherwise fully functional]
I like that philosophy and if it works for him from a business perspective, that's really great. He makes really great plugins and I wish him much success selling them, he's a great guy.

But if anyone expects Native Instruments to do that they're truly delusional. :hihi:

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LawrenceF wrote:
So it's not us - we who fully understand the value of that model to Cockos - it's them, those who regularly imply that everybody could or should do that and if they use copy protection they're being "unfair"... or "treating people like thieves". See Schwa's plugins that also employ a similar model...
Yeah, I get that, but there's another case of people who say that things too, we feel that way, but we don't expect everyone to drop their current model because of it, but we dropped some them because of it and that's the thing, but I dig we or I are minority/exceptions in "treating people like thieves" shouters, so all good, I would assume same for something else in some different case too :tu:


But if anyone expects Native Instruments to do that they're truly delusional. :hihi:
Or Waves :lol:

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chk071 wrote:Well, just imagine Steinberg gave out Cubase with a never expiring demo version. You think everyone would take the moral responsibility and pay for it? Or put a batch of 2.000 € PC's on the sidewalk, and place a piggy bank aside it, with a note "Please pay 2.000 € for the TV". You think anyone would do that?
when I was a kid (10 maybe) I went into the local department store with a friend and on a dare we each swiped a baseball. A while later I was with that friend and going to play baseball...he asked me where my ball was and I said I lost it at the school playground...truth is I couldn't play with it with a clear conscience and I almost got busted sneaking the ball back into the store. I dont really care what the majority of people would do, I follow my moral compass.

FTR, I dont feel like any company is treating me like a thief simply because I know I am not a thief...if they accuse me of being a thief that would be a different story, no one has. So I really am not bothered that they try to protect their product and really the fact that copy protection is a part of the cost of the software doesn't bother me either. It's still a hell of a lot cheaper than back in the day if you wanted more than 4 tracks :shrug:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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But why should you lock the door when someone could get through just with a few clicks? :o

I typed something into Google, and I could have downloaded a fully functional warez of Studio One Professional 2.5 in a few seconds!

What does a copy protection help that can be broken that easily?

My relative even offered me a warez version of Cubase 5 and I told him that I don't use warez because I pay for my stuff... He looked at me pretty critically and said: "Why do you want to pay for it if you can get it for free?", then I said: "Because the developers need to survive, too!", and he said: "You don't have to care about them, they already have more than enough money!"

But I rejected his offer and I'm still using my paid Reaper version.

Anyway, what does a copy protection help that isn't even a protection at all?

So far, the only one with a REAL copy protection is Urs from U-He! :clap:

Why does the police stop cars and shoot at innocent people who look suspicious but they can't stop Team AiR?
Last edited by Tricky-Loops on Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tricky-Loops wrote: Same with Cubase. I could have downloaded a warez of version 7.5 in a few seconds!
Fully working? Apart from that, downloading a warezed version would be like hiring a burglar to get through the locked front door. ;) And the door is still not fully open. As far as i always read, there is no fully working warezed Cubase since version 5 or so.

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Hink wrote: So I really am not bothered that they try to protect their product and really the fact that copy protection is a part of the cost of the software doesn't bother me either.

I'm not bothered either, I don't care about many of them actually, all I know, if anyone will get my next synth money for example, that will be U-He or Reveal Sound, why, because their demo's are great and vibe around them, especially U-He.

I'm still trying to find a reason to get another synth that I don't need, but when I do, I will probably swing for one I had chance to really use/test all this time and not for any other marketing reasons.

They felt confident in giving me so much flexibility and time to really make up my mind, kudos to them, Dune for example will never come before them, tried, didn't liked instantly, never will consider it again, on other hand never stopped trying Spire or Diva (and Hive too) and grow to like them despite bad first impressions I had and still have for some things. :tu:
Last edited by Passing Bye on Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chk071 wrote:As far as i always read, there is no fully working warezed Cubase since version 5 or so.
You're right, I didn't read the comments on the warez site that it isn't working - thumbs up for Steinberg! :tu:

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Tricky-Loops wrote:But why should you lock the door when someone could get through just with a few clicks? :o
Why do lock your front door when a common door lock can be broken open with a hammer and a screwdriver in 5 seconds? Why do you lock your car doors when any kid with a small rock can break the window and open it in 3 seconds and doesn't have to wait 15-30 minutes for a download to get the thing they plan to steal? You'd be financially better off not having to also pay for the broken window too, so ... just never lock your car doors?

Why lock your cable TV with a password to keep your kids from seeing porn? They're gonna get in and watch Cinemax when you're not home anyway so you might as well not bother? :hihi: Car keys are a waste because anyone really wanting to steal your car is gonna steal it anyway so... just make them all push button start with no key. Why even bother?

Yes, it's all pretty silly right? :hihi:

Please post your home address. I'll get a U-Haul truck and pay you a visit while you and wifey are at the movies because I know your home and spare cars and garage will all be unlocked. Thanks, I need a new computer. :tu:

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LawrenceF wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:But why should you lock the door when someone could get through just with a few clicks? :o
Why do lock your front door when a common door lock can be broken open with a hammer and a screwdriver in 5 seconds? Why do you lock your car doors when any kid with a small rock can break the window and open it in 3 seconds and doesn't have to wait 15-30 minutes for a download to get the thing they plan to steal? You'd be financially better off not having to also pay for the broken window too, so ... just never lock your car doors?

Why lock your cable TV with a password to keep your kids from seeing porn? They're gonna get in and watch Cinemax when you're not home anyway so you might as well not bother? :hihi: Car keys are a waste because anyone really wanting to steal your car is gonna steal it anyway so... just make them all push button start with no key. Why even bother?
Because otherwise the insurance won't pay! :wink:

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Hmmm... I wonder if some of these companies have insurance on their business loans or investments or similar and may at times have to demonstrate that they're taking some minimal steps to protect their intellectual property to banks or investors or similar to secure funding?

Nah. They're all independently wealthy and every single decision they ever make is always something they just want to do or not do, never something they maybe have to do for some other reason. :) And of course, no matter how large the company they always agree on everything. The 99% of developers who use copy protection are just... not as smart as some people on KVR... and have never considered any of the things people talk about here. They're all just really dumb greedy bastards and they have no clue when their apps are cracked or not. :hihi:

If they'd only let us run their businesses they'd make so much more money. :lol: We have all the answers. The Tracktion guy Julian or whatever is a genius, but he's too stupid to know that copy protection doesn't work and that he shouldn't have any at all for Traction. Good thing he reads KVR huh? :hihi:

Bottom line, they don't owe us anything and they never have. If you disagree with the sales approach of using copy protection, don't buy anything with copy protection? Buy and use Reaper. Problem solved.

What's the end game, the actual point? What result are you seeking? Sometimes you just have to accept the things you literally can't change and just let go of it. :)

If the only point is to collectively convince them that they're all wrong about that and you're right, good luck with that. :hihi:

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LawrenceF wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:But why should you lock the door when someone could get through just with a few clicks? :o
Why do lock your front door when a common door lock can be broken open with a hammer and a screwdriver in 5 seconds? Why do you lock your car doors when any kid with a small rock can break the window and open it in 3 seconds and doesn't have to wait 15-30 minutes for a download to get the thing they plan to steal? You'd be financially better off not having to also pay for the broken window too, so ... just never lock your car doors?

Why lock your cable TV with a password to keep your kids from seeing porn? They're gonna get in and watch Cinemax when you're not home anyway so you might as well not bother? :hihi: Car keys are a waste because anyone really wanting to steal your car is gonna steal it anyway so... just make them all push button start with no key. Why even bother?

Yes, it's all pretty silly right? :hihi:

Please post your home address. I'll get a U-Haul truck and pay you a visit while you and wifey are at the movies because I know your home and spare cars and garage will all be unlocked. Thanks, I need a new computer. :tu:
I still live in Mass but one day I will be moving up to the Maine coast where I spent much of my youth and where my family is from (Downeast Maine). Believe it or not the towns I am looking at dont even have a police department, no one needs to lock their doors because people do not steal. I will of course be locking my doors because I am in the habit of it (and I will get teased for it) but if I were there now I could walk into the homes of just about everyone...of course if they dont know me I might regret it. :hihi:

We had a old rum running shack turned into a camp on a lake and it could never be completely locked, it was full of antiques but in 35 years never once was it broken into. You see in such small towns in Maine people understand that visiting your problems on your neighbor is not the answer, stealing does just that. Keep in mind I am talking very small towns population wise.

The internet makes it hard for people to believe such places still exist, honesty is still alive and well in some places. Communities still matter and communities that harbor trust at that, they rely on each other and to steal hurts all.

However I would highly advise against getting a U-haul and hoping for a big score, Maine has it's own version of "stand your ground laws". :hihi:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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I do personally think, right or wrong, that the vast majority of people are inherently honest when it comes to theft in general, and would never outright just directly steal things.

People that steal all the music software they use aren't going to buy it anyway, especially not the expensive stuff. :) Imo, that's iLok's job, to keep them at bay. The rest of us rationalize things in various ways when we do something wrong.

The more cursory copy protection methods are, imo anyway, really more just moral checkpoints for most honest people who might otherwise easily rationalize not paying for something if it just keeps working. :) I mean, $4-500 is no small amount of money so it would be pretty easy for many otherwise honest people to rationalize not paying that when the time comes if it just keeps working, and just keep using it long past the deadline. Or only occasionally use it and rationalize it that way, "I don't use it much so..."

But if it stops working you have to make a choice. Buy it, steal it, or stop using it. It's non-ambiguous and can't be rationalized so easily.

To go get a torrent or a key gen or a crack requires that you actively seek to do something very clearly illegal, commit an overt act, which is bit harder to internally rationalize for a typical more honest person. Jane may use Reaper forever and rationalize not paying for it in some ways she can live with, but if she had to go looking for an illegal copy her morality actually might kick in a little harder.

So no, the more cursory protection methods actually don't seem to be designed to try to keep out committed thieves to me. ILok and eLicenser do seem that way though. :)

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