KVR Audio

adn_01 · Post by **adn_01** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:43 pm

hi,

as my home mini was recently getting a bit too weak for my logic sessions i have bought an iMac for my home setup (apart from having a mac pro for studio one). this has introduced some problems i hadn't expected...

in logic, the latest update, i get strange cpu spikes while scrolling project while it's playing. multithreading is set to playback tracks only and processing threads is fixed at 8 instead of auto. i didn't notice that before on the mini. it seems to be settings related, but have no idea of how to eliminate this. on dense projects i get audio artefacts when i attempt to scroll the project during it being played back.

the machine seems powerful, it's i7 @ 4GHz with 32 GB of ram and fusion drive. on a single core it's even faster than the pro...

any ideas?

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:13 pm

adn_01 wrote:hi,

as my home mini was recently getting a bit too weak for my logic sessions i have bought an iMac for my home setup (apart from having a mac pro for studio one). this has introduced some problems i hadn't expected...

in logic, the latest update, i get strange cpu spikes while scrolling project while it's playing. multithreading is set to playback tracks only and processing threads is fixed at 8 instead of auto. i didn't notice that before on the mini. it seems to be settings related, but have no idea of how to eliminate this. on dense projects i get audio artefacts when i attempt to scroll the project during it being played back.

the machine seems powerful, it's i7 @ 4GHz with 32 GB of ram and fusion drive. on a single core it's even faster than the pro...

any ideas?

If this happens with the new update and not previous ones it's probably the update. logiprohelp is the best place for specific logic issues and solutions.

adn_01 · Post by **adn_01** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:36 pm

it's been a coincidence that i got the new mac just before a new logic x update, but i really have no way to check this, other that possibly retrieving a copy from the previous version from time machine. that i'd like to avoid...

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:24 pm

adn_01 wrote:it's been a coincidence that i got the new mac just before a new logic x update, but i really have no way to check this, other that possibly retrieving a copy from the previous version from time machine. that i'd like to avoid...

Try it with internal sound output ?, could be an issue with your audio interface possibly. I assume you are on El Cap, it borked a number of interfaces initially. Focusrite ones seem to be problematic. also the fusion drives caused some issues a while back, google that there was a fix.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:20 am

this is really weird.. as Dennis says we need to know your audio interface which some of us might have more insight about with regards to El Capitan.

That is indeed a very powerful machine and should scream logic performance.

For me, el capitan has been so problematic that i'm going to do yet another reformat (just have to find a day i don't need the computer) and go back to yosemite. Today i was browsing safari and the whole computer hung.. i had to force shut down.. reminded me of windwos BSOD days.. thought it might have been my system.. but a quick google search found this has been happening for thousands of people from 10.11.3.. of course i can't download 10.11.2 cause i downloaded el cap for the first time at 10.11.4 and apple won't allow me to try an earlier version. You can't go to yosemite on that machine, so my suggestions:
1) Tell us what background processes may be running..
2) What audio interface and driver you are using
2) Are you on Logic 10.2.3 and El capitan 10.11.5?

!0.11.6 is due which hopefully will finally fix the random freeze once and for all. El capitan did NOTHING for logic performance over yosemite or mavericks for me.. same plugin count. All this talk of improved performance was just more BS of apple having to push out a new os every year instead of adding features slowly over time and refining bugs in existing OS.. The reason i bring up the freeze is that there are tons of people convinced it is graphic related.. as in the graphic driver in the OS itself and is known to happen on new imacs.. so it makes some sort of coding sense that this could affect cpu spikes in an audio program. If you have the 4ghz you have the flagship retina, and that is known for havign freeze issues. I am just wondering if it's all related, but at least let us know the interface in case there is something someone here can help you with. Cheers.

PS what process buffer size do you use, the default medium? And what main buffer size, 64, 128?

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:37 am

Ok this is interesting.. using internal sound on a retina 15" macbook pro, 2.8ghz i7 quad, 16gb ram, 1tb internal ssd, running logic 10.2.3 and OS 10.11.5, buffer 128 with process buffer at default medium, and just one exs24 on the default "sine wave" setting playing a three note chord, using literally no cpu on the meter, i get spikes half way up the last core when i scroll.. and it's all basically empty space besides 2 bars of 3 note chords! I can imagine how frustrating this would be with busy projects!

See the thing is i rarely use soft synths anymore OR native effects (hardware synths and uad effects), and i am mostly using pro tools. I only tested Logic 10.2.3 for 5 minutes to see if the pdc automation bug had been fixed. But i can reproduce your unexplainable spikes is what I am trying to say. hmm.

adn_01 · Post by **adn_01** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:58 am

as for the interface i use Motu Ultralite (firewire), via thunderbolt adapter. However, with internat sound output it's just about the same issue. I tried different process buffer sizes, at medium it's slightly better but the virus (which I am going to retire some time in the future) is nagging me to change to small. main buffer size usually @ 64 but the 128 makes no great difference.

On my late 2012 mini I used to have cpu power related issues and occassional spikes during recording, which i could not stand. The iMac (yes, that's the i7 retina) however is much more powerful (and much more expensive) and even though I can return it - what else should I replace it with? The specs seem to be more than just satisfactory. And i can't downgrade to yosemite (well...)

I have no other problems with the machine, no hangups, freezes, no need to restart. I installed nothing but the stuff i need - no flash plugins.

The problem now only occurs while I attempt to scroll the the window. I also tried to change the settings for multithreading, no difference.

adn_01 · Post by **adn_01** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:03 pm

TheoM wrote:Ok this is interesting.. using internal sound on a retina 15" macbook pro, 2.8ghz i7 quad, 16gb ram, 1tb internal ssd, running logic 10.2.3 and OS 10.11.5, buffer 128 with process buffer at default medium, and just one exs24 on the default "sine wave" setting playing a three note chord, using literally no cpu on the meter, i get spikes half way up the last core when i scroll.. and it's all basically empty space besides 2 bars of 3 note chords! I can imagine how frustrating this would be with busy projects!

Yeah, forgot to note, the spikes really occur on the last core (thread, really, as Logic shows threads not cores on the CPU meter). But a visible increas while scrolling is visible on all threads.

Now I would be more than afraid to upgrade my studio mac pro, though I am curious to see how it's on the twelve cores (@ 2,7GHz though).

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:16 pm

I'll give Theo's test on my machine , see specs below with 10.2.2. might help to track this down. Don't use Logic much but I have never noticed this before.

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:49 pm

TheoM wrote:Ok this is interesting.. using internal sound on a retina 15" macbook pro, 2.8ghz i7 quad, 16gb ram, 1tb internal ssd, running logic 10.2.3 and OS 10.11.5, buffer 128 with process buffer at default medium, and just one exs24 on the default "sine wave" setting playing a three note chord, using literally no cpu on the meter, i get spikes half way up the last core when i scroll.. and it's all basically empty space besides 2 bars of 3 note chords! I can imagine how frustrating this would be with busy projects!

See the thing is i rarely use soft synths anymore OR native effects (hardware synths and uad effects), and i am mostly using pro tools. I only tested Logic 10.2.3 for 5 minutes to see if the pdc automation bug had been fixed. But i can reproduce your unexplainable spikes is what I am trying to say. hmm.

Did same on 10.2.2/10.9.5 and as clean a whistle , no spikes. Only a little help I suppose , not a legacy bug but something that is specific to El Cap or 10.2.3.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:57 pm

I believe that Dennis.. i am convinced it's video driver related with el capitan.. it all has to tie in somewhow with the other problems mentioned.. did you know, pro tools is so sluggish on el capitan when it's own compressor plugins are open, that the meters become completely useless? Also cubase in a semi busy project, takes a second to click on a part and for it to highlight, or click in the arrange page to DE select parts.. no joking.. there is something seriously wrong with el capitan and graphics and a cpu spike manifestation is not out of the realm of possibility.

I'd love to go mavericks on my imac, which CAN ( i can go back as far as 10.6.7 on that which is what it came with), but unfortunately, just as often as apple force OS updates, DAW devs seem to be killing support for older OSes. PT at least works with 10.9.5 but cube 8.5 and logic 10.2.3, no, they have given it up.. to me it's still a new OS.

10.6.8 - the best mac os in the universe of all time for speed and those who don't care about fancy features, the winxp of osx basically

10.7 - bleh

10.8 - better than 10.7 but bleh

10.9.5 - good solid OS.. the win 7 of osx.

10.10 - Win 8, in other words OK but nothing fantastic with some unwelcome changes.. HOWEVER, it's stable and OK to use if you have software that REQUIRES it

10.11 - worst osx of all time and avoid at all costs.

my 2c.

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:32 pm

TheoM wrote:I believe that Dennis.. i am convinced it's video driver related with el capitan.. it all has to tie in somewhow with the other problems mentioned.. did you know, pro tools is so sluggish on el capitan when it's own compressor plugins are open, that the meters become completely useless? Also cubase in a semi busy project, takes a second to click on a part and for it to highlight, or click in the arrange page to DE select parts.. no joking.. there is something seriously wrong with el capitan and graphics and a cpu spike manifestation is not out of the realm of possibility.

I'd love to go mavericks on my imac, which CAN ( i can go back as far as 10.6.7 on that which is what it came with), but unfortunately, just as often as apple force OS updates, DAW devs seem to be killing support for older OSes. PT at least works with 10.9.5 but cube 8.5 and logic 10.2.3, no, they have given it up.. to me it's still a new OS.

10.6.8 - the best mac os in the universe of all time for speed and those who don't care about fancy features, the winxp of osx basically

10.7 - bleh

10.8 - better than 10.7 but bleh

10.9.5 - good solid OS.. the win 7 of osx.

10.10 - Win 8, in other words OK but nothing fantastic with some unwelcome changes.. HOWEVER, it's stable and OK to use if you have software that REQUIRES it

10.11 - worst osx of all time and avoid at all costs.

my 2c.

I actually use Cubase 8.5.15 on 10.9.5 with no issues, I know not supported but gave it a try anyway. What really pisses me off about Apple is I can't get Yosemite because I didn't download it, if I have to upgrade that would be a safer bet, but as of now sticking with Mavericks which is fine.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:43 pm

technically i could make a yosemite boot disk for someone who lost it couldn't i? Or does that break some sort of code? let me know.

I have learned from now on to dl a new apple os on day 1 and just put it away, then when i want to use it, i can install the point 0 version and the combo update of the version i want to use. Simple. Lesson learned.. i feel you.

After i tested cubase's automation timing and found it 100% broken on ANY plugin, even factory one's, including zero latency plugins, the timing is all over the place, i have no desire to ever use it again. I confirmed this on both macs, one with 10.11, one with 10.10

One with internal sound, the other tested with apollo/motu ultralite/avid c600

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

In Cubase are you dong rapid fire gating type stuff of plugin parameters, I use relatively little automation ( volume and mutes mainly) and have never noticed it. I also render vst to audio pretty quickly. I used to notice in PT 10 a bit. Give me a CB scenario and I will try it.

May take you up in the boot disk, appreciated.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:23 pm

woodsdenis wrote:In Cubase are you dong rapid fire gating type stuff of plugin parameters, I use relatively little automation ( volume and mutes mainly) and have never noticed it. I also render vst to audio pretty quickly. I used to notice in PT 10 a bit. Give me a CB scenario and I will try it.

May take you up in the boot disk, appreciated.

very easy...

just make an empty cubase project.

Put a single audio track (in my case i am using a loop so a music time base audio track may be a factor, but all my audio is set to conform to tempo anyway)

Put on the cubase eq INSERT or the transient designer.. they are the two i tested and worked with the same bug (along with fab filter pro Q).

Note, don't put any other plugins, keep it to zero or low latency for now.

Simply draw in read automation for the output gain of EQ or TD.. zoom, watch how off it is.

new mac and new problems...