KVR Audio

JerGoertz · Post by **JerGoertz** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:12 am

Render a .wav from each DAW of Oddity playing the same MIDI sequence. Do this 5 times. Send the .wavs to a friend and have them give each file a random number, and keep track of which is which. Have your friend send them back to you. Try to decide which .wav came from DAW. Ask your friend how many you got right.

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:41 am

For every DAW? Are they independent studies? Do they do recording, or VSTi rendering, or only audio playback? Can you cite one, please? I can't find any definitive ones. I know different DAWs use different dithering algorithms so that would make a difference, too.

incubus · Post by **incubus** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:12 am

masterhiggins wrote:Logically there shouldn't be a diffence

Orly

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Spirit2017 · Post by **Spirit2017** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:36 am

Every DAW sounds the same digital as every computer !How can you ask this ?

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:41 am

acey wrote:I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times before. First let me say that I am a loyal Ableton fan, I own Ableton Live Suite and Push v.1 and the current version, Push 2. So, you could say I'm quit committed to Ableton as a DAW.
I recently picked up Apple Logic X, just to learn something new, and the price can't be beat for what it includes. As soon as I started using it, I noticed that the sounds blew me away. Both DAWS reside on the same Imac, same sound card. Now I realize that there are a lot of variables involved here that would account for the sound difference. But just today, I loaded up the plugin Oddity v. 1.3 by Gforce in Logic and couldn't believe it was the same plugin I used before. I always hated this plugin and never ever used it because it always sounded very thin and not exciting as I imagined it should sound. I've used it on Pc's and Macs, all in Ableton Live, never sounded good to my ears. It sounds amazing in Logic, punchy, dynamic, and fat, It's like having a brand new plugin.
What could account for this? Does Logic have a better "sound engine"?

Indeed it does. It's because it's been aged longer than Live's engine. It's something like wine, the older the sound engine, the more mature it is. Code that ages loses some of the bits around the edges and the loss of those bits is what rounds out the sound, making it more lively, more natural, dare I say, more analog.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:06 am

ghettosynth wrote:
acey wrote:I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times before. First let me say that I am a loyal Ableton fan, I own Ableton Live Suite and Push v.1 and the current version, Push 2. So, you could say I'm quit committed to Ableton as a DAW.
I recently picked up Apple Logic X, just to learn something new, and the price can't be beat for what it includes. As soon as I started using it, I noticed that the sounds blew me away. Both DAWS reside on the same Imac, same sound card. Now I realize that there are a lot of variables involved here that would account for the sound difference. But just today, I loaded up the plugin Oddity v. 1.3 by Gforce in Logic and couldn't believe it was the same plugin I used before. I always hated this plugin and never ever used it because it always sounded very thin and not exciting as I imagined it should sound. I've used it on Pc's and Macs, all in Ableton Live, never sounded good to my ears. It sounds amazing in Logic, punchy, dynamic, and fat, It's like having a brand new plugin.
What could account for this? Does Logic have a better "sound engine"?
Indeed it does. It's because it's been aged longer that Live's engine. It's something like wine, the older the sound engine, the more mature it is. Code that ages loses some of the bits around the edges and the loss of those bits is what rounds out the sound, making it more lively, more natural, dare I say, more analog.

Some years ago I read here on KVR about a DAW that uses non-trivial summation on mixer, which make sit closer to analog summation. Not sure which DAW it was, but overall this theory could make sense.

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:12 am

incubus wrote:
masterhiggins wrote:Logically there shouldn't be a diffence
Orly

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I can't believe I missed out on that! And I completely missed my misspelling. Son of a bitch I'm getting old!

warp x · Post by **warp x** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:44 am

Listen with your ears instead of your eyes

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:04 am

DJ Warmonger wrote: non-trivial summation on mixer, which make sit closer to analog summation.

I know this is not your claim but i had to point it out and to laugh (not at you).

"non-trivial summation on mixer, which make sit closer to analog summation" is new in my list of snake oil nonsense claims. In fact it is so good it deserve to be printed out on T-shirt.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:08 am

masterhiggins wrote:Unless, of course, they're all using the exact same method of recording/playback/summing.

They are, all of it are just maths, the theory and methods were developed a long ago and it is all avaible in academic literature. There is nothing secret about that.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:17 am

masterhiggins wrote:For every DAW? Are they independent studies? Do they do recording, or VSTi rendering, or only audio playback? Can you cite one, please? I can't find any definitive ones. I know different DAWs use different dithering algorithms so that would make a difference, too.

Most DAWs allow you to choose which dithering algo you want to use.

It is really not that hard to understand: in the digital domain everything is 1s and 0s, the goal for developers is not "the best sound" but that the results of all the equations employed is correct, that a file is 100% identical after passing through the DAW (if no operation was applied). If a DAW added anything just by playing something through it (with the same settings) it would be a failure.

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:33 am

rod_zero wrote:
masterhiggins wrote:For every DAW? Are they independent studies? Do they do recording, or VSTi rendering, or only audio playback? Can you cite one, please? I can't find any definitive ones. I know different DAWs use different dithering algorithms so that would make a difference, too.
Most DAWs allow you to choose which dithering algo you want to use.

It is really not that hard to understand: in the digital domain everything is 1s and 0s, the goal for developers is not "the best sound" but that the results of all the equations employed is correct, that a file is 100% identical after passing through the DAW (if no operation was applied). If a DAW added anything just by playing something through it (with the same settings) it would be a failure.

Wot I said, except for Harrison, who deliberately colour the output of their DAWs.
And don't forget to make sure your computer is properly warmed up...

Mister Natural · Post by **Mister Natural** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:18 pm

If subject X is even .1db louder than subject Z, the ear will perceive the louder subject as "better" sounding almost 99% of the time

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:50 pm

Another noob who think that DAWs sound different in terms of audible quality.

I hear it! I hear it!

incubus · Post by **incubus** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:01 am

Ableton live does sound like ass. And I have the projects to prove it!

(uploaded to soundcloud, of course)

Logic X sounds better than Ableton Live?