Ableton Live 10 - what is it?

[pdxindy]

I have Logic to fill in the gaps of what I cannot do in Bitwig. Logic really is a no brainer deal.

Could you please elaborate? I'm comparing the Bitwig demo with my Ableton Lite - should I also look at Logic?

I don't know what you should do... For myself, being able to automate time signatures is sometimes necessary and Bitwig currently doesn't do that. Plenty of people do not use multiple time signatures so it depends on the individual. Live can automate time signatures and so can Logic.

Sometimes I'm creating music for video and Bitwig does not currently have video capability built in. Live has some basic video capability but Logic is much better for video.

When I said Logic is a no brainer, I mean that Apple is not particularly concerned about making money from Logic since it is the computers they are really selling. So Logic is by far the best dollar value in a DAW. Of course if you want Session View like Live (Clip Launcher in Bitwig) then Logic does not have that.

Both Bitwig and Logic support MPE controllers like Linnstrument and Rise and that is important to me, and Live does not... so it depends on what each individuals needs and their priorities are. Bitwig is my favorite in terms of GUI, ease of use and enjoyable workflow.

[musiclover55547]

One concept seals the deal in Ableton's favor: WARPing

Bitwig's Time Stretching is subpar. Back in the days when I used it, the developers / spokespeople all stated they saw no need for major improvements.

What sealed the deal, above and beyond, is the new pricing model, a la Steinberg with yearly upgrade fees. Both Ableton and Logic have been on the current release, with free upgrades, for over three years now. Monetize that.

Oh yes... Live has better warping and Bitwig's is not very good. No question about that. Fortunately for me, I hardly use time stretching so it is a non issue for me.

Yeah, there has been no additional cost for Live for more than 3 years (4 now?), but there has also been very little development of the core application either. If you are happy with Live as is, then that is a good thing cause you get some solid peripheral functionality and bug fixes free. For the people asking for stuff like nested groups, assignable key commands, group sends, etc... they might rather pay some money to get those features.

I switched away from Live because my impression was that Ableton finds the application kinda done (nothing wrong with that) and is not likely to add the stuff I wanted and Bitwig is going in the direction that interests me with MPE support and per note modulations as well as better editing, modulation and so on.

I have Logic to fill in the gaps of what I cannot do in Bitwig. Logic really is a no brainer deal. Live is the odd one out. It is good to have different choices to suit different peoples needs/interests.

That's a very fair, even-keeled response. One of the reasons I have Ableton is to fill in Logic's gaps -- mainly the Nonlinear Workflow aspects and the superior WARPing functionality. I do Rewire the two together, something you cannot do with Bitwig. Also, I've recently found I like mixing Audio / Stems in Live. Drums are superior in both.

I'm not certain as to what others' Audio complaints actually are. Get RX5/RX6 or Audition if you want to go nuts. Logic's Audio Editor isn't the best, and I use iZotope. Jeff Cross, Apple's Product Manager, has mentioned Audio Finder on Gearslutz. Audacity is a free option with lots of support. Reaper works too. I never checked if Ableton allows you to integrate the various tools. Logic enables you to designate a 3rd Party Audio Editor in Preferences.

Incidentally, both Ableton & Logic have very good SRC algorithms: http://src.infinitewave.ca.
Perhaps Bitwig cleaned theirs up in V2.

MIDI functionality is superior, IMHO, in the Linear DAWs; Logic & Cubase are at the front of the line.

[re23071998]

Linux support please!!

[lengro]

I don't know what you should do... For myself, being able to automate time signatures is sometimes necessary and Bitwig currently doesn't do that. Plenty of people do not use multiple time signatures so it depends on the individual. Live can automate time signatures and so can Logic.

Sometimes I'm creating music for video and Bitwig does not currently have video capability built in. Live has some basic video capability but Logic is much better for video.

When I said Logic is a no brainer, I mean that Apple is not particularly concerned about making money from Logic since it is the computers they are really selling. So Logic is by far the best dollar value in a DAW. Of course if you want Session View like Live (Clip Launcher in Bitwig) then Logic does not have that.

Both Bitwig and Logic support MPE controllers like Linnstrument and Rise and that is important to me, and Live does not... so it depends on what each individuals needs and their priorities are. Bitwig is my favorite in terms of GUI, ease of use and enjoyable workflow.

Good points, thanks for clearing it up - video capabilities is not for me, so I continue to keep my DAW research between Live and Bitwig.

[Kinh]

I expect it to blow bitwig out of the water

[pdxindy]

I expect it to blow bitwig out of the water

That would be great!! I kept my Live 9 license in case that were to happen. In the meanwhile, I'll keep using Bitwig cause I like it better.

[nilhartman]

I just hope Live will finally get a decent set of modulators (I do envy Bitwig users here) and MPE support. That's all I'd need. Some CPU optimization could be nice as well. Inter-plugin MIDI mapping would be stunning but eh, I feel like it's not gonna happen anytime soon...
Bitwig is very tempting, but it lacks AU support (can't do without DrumSpillage nor Goodhertz plugins!) and I miss the super-precise macro editing (when it comes to parameter values) that Live offers.
I love and use Five12 Numerology Pro, which I'd use standalone if it supported multithreading, some basic audio playback abilities and editable automations.
Loomer's Epoch (or whatever will be its final name) looks damn promising too.
I sometimes wish I could put all those DAW in a blender, and get the perfect one for me. The never-ending quest hehe

[Soarer]

I don't have a clue, but I can tell you why I stopped using it (for anyone that gives a rats)

Audio. It's just f...king insane. MOST REMEDIAL AUDIO HANDLING EVER! And for me being a bass and guitar guy it was just too much. I waited two and half years for improvements. If there was an audio editor that integrated (and tried them all ) that would have been fine, but audio editing is prehistoric in live, and I couldn't handle it anymore.

Then please give my suggestion of an Ableton Audio Editor a vote at the Ableton centercode site:

https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... A}&a=v&t=1

I think you have to be logged in to the site...

[richardk]

I hope
- Mp3 export
- Multi clip edit
- Custom Shortcuts
- Something like Melodyne / Variaudio / Flexpitch integrated
- Categorization of plugins or "add to favorites" feature

[Soarer]

I think Live 10 must be coming out quite soon (within half a year or so). No significant new features in the beta versions lately and Bitwig has gotten better.
What do you think? Any leaks of this?
I, for one, bet it's going to be awesome

[acYm]

FOR F'S SAKE, PLEASE STOP FILTERING OUT POLY AFTERTOUCH!

indeed. also, being able to use midi channels in multi-timbral instruments could be nice. also we need better automation recording in session view. the thinningaggressiveness option only works in arrangement - wtf is the point then?

[joniqwest]

This maybe interesting from a GUI update perspective

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/ableton ... st12641818

[p4tz3r]

In addition to things mentioned above, I'd like to see a few great and inspiring soft instruments (a quality Moog instrument equal to The Legend would be awesome). It seems to me the Ableton Suite instruments and effects have gotten a bit stale and lackluster. Also, a better way to navigate and apply saved presets.

A facelift and color palette refresh for the UI.

A better way to browse and organize assets?

MP3 and AAC export!

(I could care less about surround sound.)

[musiclover55547]

In addition to things mentioned above, I'd like to see a few great and inspiring soft instruments (a quality Moog instrument equal to The Legend would be awesome). It seems to me the Ableton Suite instruments and effects have gotten a bit stale and lackluster. Also, a better way to navigate and apply saved presets.

A facelift and color palette refresh for the UI.

A better way to browse and organize assets?

MP3 and AAC export!

(I could care less about surround sound.)

I could care less about MP3s, but to each their own. As far as the Suite's included VI's, all one has to do is look at Logic or Cubase. The two blow Ableton's VI's, other than the Racks, out of the water.

- Alchemy 2
- Retrologue 2
- Drummer, Ultrabeat, and the EXS24
- Groove Agent

Just to list a few. Live Standard comes with the fleet of EFX, and those hold their own against the other two. In some areas Live actually surpasses, though not all. M4L does pick up some of the slack, but it's written utilizing Java 6. I believe Bitwig is even further entrenched with a bastardized version of this ancient release. The same developers are at the helm it would appear, but I have to ask: what's the deal with that?

[pdxindy]

As far as the Suite's included VI's, all one has to do is look at Logic or Cubase. The two blow Ableton's VI's, other than the Racks, out of the water.

disagree

the AAS stuff is great... and Operator with the top notch filters is an excellent synth. I think there is a bias against the Live synths due to not having slick GUI's.