Midi in Studio One

[husker37]

I'm one burned by the death of Sonar. The closest DAW to Sonar seems to be Studio One. I'm a fairly new hobbyist, but most of what I do is Midi. I understand that Cubase has the best Midi around, but it is too expensive, and I don't like dongles.

Reaper is just kind of ugly to me, so I was looking at S1. How is midi in S1, compared to Sonar?

Thank you.

[CTStump]

It's different but workable. Note effects helps get it closer to Sonar MFX. The one big thing though is the lack of slip dragging loop clips. In Studio One you have to duplicate clips like Cubase. It has step input, snap to scale, controller automaton and the control setup is miles ahead of ACT in my opinion.

It was a lot easier for me to get up and running in Studio One than Sonar but demo it and find out for yourself to see if it will work for ya.

[Romantique Tp]

The one big thing though is the lack of slip dragging loop clips. In Studio One you have to duplicate clips like Cubase.

If this is what I think it is, Cubase does have that.


To the thread starter: Sonar isn't going to run away, so you can save money for as long as you like. If you do heavy MIDI/virtual instrument work then you wont regret getting Cubase. Studio One is primarily an audio DAW, but Cubase also handles audio excellently on top of being much better at MIDI.

Depending on your country, you may be able to receive a big crossgrade discount. If the Steinberg store doesn't show a crossgrade option, try calling the local Yamaha/Steinberg office. They might help you with that.

[CTStump]

The one big thing though is the lack of slip dragging loop clips. In Studio One you have to duplicate clips like Cubase.

If this is what I think it is, Cubase does have that.


To the thread starter: Sonar isn't going to run away, so you can save money for as long as you like. If you do heavy MIDI/virtual instrument work then you wont regret getting Cubase. Studio One is primarily an audio DAW, but Cubase also handles audio excellently on top of being much better at MIDI.

Depending on your country, you may be able to receive a big crossgrade discount. If the Steinberg store doesn't show a crossgrade option, try calling the local Yamaha/Steinberg office. They might help you with that.

That's good to know. Cubase is the best as far as MIDI is concerned in my opinion but since I haven't used it recently and it didn't have that feature so it wasn't fair that I would make that assumption.

Cubase is a deep DAW but the question was about Studio One. Hopefully the OP will demo the solution that works for them.

[husker37]

Thanks. I can get a crossgrade to Cubase for $325, but then I have to buy the Dongle. Both put me off. I can get S1 for $199.

I'm a hobbyist, but 90% of what I do is midi and VSTs. What Sonar had for Midi was perfectly acceptable, I just hope S1 is about the same.

I'm pretty new at this as well, so demoing things is good, but it takes me a long time to figure stuff out.

Reaper is cheap as well, but I don't know how their midi implementation stacks up to what Sonar has.

[braj]

I dunno, I happen to like Reaper's midi way more than Studio One. It is way more configurable to the way I like to work, you can hide unused notes like the Ableton fold feature, a little time spent learning how to configure it can get you just the behavior you may prefer. I sold Studio One earlier this year and went back to Reaper and couldn't be happier.

[antic604]

Thanks. I can get a crossgrade to Cubase for $325, but then I have to buy the Dongle. Both put me off. I can get S1 for $199.

I'm a hobbyist, but 90% of what I do is midi and VSTs. What Sonar had for Midi was perfectly acceptable, I just hope S1 is about the same.

I'm pretty new at this as well, so demoing things is good, but it takes me a long time to figure stuff out.

Reaper is cheap as well, but I don't know how their midi implementation stacks up to what Sonar has.

S1 Pro - which is the version to get - right now is 50% off, so I'd advise to d/l that 30 day fully-featured demo, try it and quickly decide if it's for you or not. Cubase is probably better at editing MIDI, but it really depends on what music you make - if it's orchestral stuff or melodic pop, Cubase might be a better bet due to chord assistant and chord track; but if it's closer to electronic music / EDM - i.e. simpler musically, focused on rhythm, sound and texture rather than melody - then save yourself some money and get S1.

At least check the videos: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... di+editing

[daw.one]

I'm a hobbyist, but 90% of what I do is midi and VSTs. What Sonar had for Midi was perfectly acceptable, I just hope S1 is about the same.

What did Sonar had that was perfectly acceptable for you?

Studio One is a nice hobbyist DAW, but as mentioned before, limited on the MIDI side. Not only feature wise, but also when it comes down to editing of MIDI data.

Next to that, development of Studio One is relying on a voting system where users can add their vote for a feature. Since the user base isn't very MIDI minded, features that improve the quality of the MIDI side, aren't really supported by the majority.

Also (less obvious) bugs in the MIDI department are usually standing much longer (if not forever) than on the audio side, simply because people don't use those features or simply don't understand the issue.

If your 90% is and stays just playing your parts with a dozen of non multitimbral instruments and doing some occasional editing, Studio One will suit you perfectly fine and you'll have a nice, easy to use DAW.

However my recommendation for MIDI and VST Instrument users is Cubase, hands down.

[antic604]

Studio One is a nice hobbyist DAW, but as mentioned before, limited on the MIDI side. Not only feature wise, but also when it comes down to editing of MIDI data.

Next to that, development of Studio One is relying on a voting system where users can add their vote for a feature. Since the user base isn't very MIDI minded, features that improve the quality of the MIDI side, aren't really supported by the majority.

Also (less obvious) bugs in the MIDI department are usually standing much longer (if not forever) than on the audio side, simply because people don't use those features or simply don't understand the issue.

I disagree.

Go to any Studio One forum or group in FB and you'll see it's mostly used by professionals and is a center of their business either recording artists, mixing / mastering or producing music.

Its development isn't relaying on "voting system" any more that e.g. Ableton Live's is - sure, users post requests on Support page and others can up-vote them, which is an indication for the developers as to what the user base wants. But it's not being relied upon, otherwise you'd not have requests that are not addressed for months or years.

If you check the FB groups, version 3.5.2 introduced a bug where - in some cases - MIDI notes are not being played. Every other post is about it, devs are aware, investigate and working to address it. From what I can see its treated with the same attention as anything else.

[Riansky]

Why don't you simply stay with Sonar? I mean if the company died does not mean the program will not work anymore. Its just not being updated, but if you had it working perfectly as it is, than I see no need to update it anyway. People still use Cubase 4/5 anyway.

[Romantique Tp]

People still use Cubase 4/5 anyway.

These are primarily older casual musicians who don't understand what's the big deal with the stuff that's added with each update and pirates. If you look for professional Cubase users on YouTube and social media, you'll see that almost everyone is using Cubase 8 or newer. The oldest version I've seen is 6.5.

I had to use Cubase 5 for a long time and it was definitely great back then, but Cubase's workflow has improved so much that using C5 today feels like a torture, not to mention all the things that C5 simply can't do. Eventually the same will happen to Sonar, which already feels behind other DAWs in several aspects.

Windows 10 updates also like breaking DAWs, and if one of them makes Sonar unstable, it's never going to get fixed.

[husker37]

Good discussion, thank you. Someone asked why I just don't stay with Sonar, and that is a fair question. I am new (only bought Sonar last year as my first DAW), so I don't have much time invested in it. I would prefer to move now to a new DAW and learn it, rather than hang on to Sonar, then have to switch.

I've done a ton of research in the last 24 hours - both Studio One and Cubase have their pros and cons. However, the more I read, the more I think that Cubase may be the way to go for me. 95% of what I do is midi with VSTis and external synth modules. I use EastWest Play, Komplete, and the UVI and Arturia packages.

[flugel45]

To the thread starter: Sonar isn't going to run away, so you can save money for as long as you like..

This. The good news and bad news of the timing is because its Black Friday week, there are great deals to be had on DAWs, and Sonar users feel like they have to switch over RIGHT NOW, which, of course, really isn't the case.

Most DAW makers have a big sale a couple times a year. If it were me, I'd start saving up, then plan to buy around mid-2018. Meanwhile, download the trials of the DAWs so you can make an informed decision when the time comes.

Reaper is worth trying first since the trial is fully functional, and you can take your time checking it out. Plus, it's already cheap - $60 for the non-commercial license.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm a hobbyist, but 90% of what I do is midi and VSTs. What Sonar had for Midi was perfectly acceptable, I just hope S1 is about the same.

What did Sonar had that was perfectly acceptable for you?

Studio One is a nice hobbyist DAW, but as mentioned before, limited on the MIDI side. Not only feature wise, but also when it comes down to editing of MIDI data.

Next to that, development of Studio One is relying on a voting system where users can add their vote for a feature. Since the user base isn't very MIDI minded, features that improve the quality of the MIDI side, aren't really supported by the majority.

Also (less obvious) bugs in the MIDI department are usually standing much longer (if not forever) than on the audio side, simply because people don't use those features or simply don't understand the issue.

If your 90% is and stays just playing your parts with a dozen of non multitimbral instruments and doing some occasional editing, Studio One will suit you perfectly fine and you'll have a nice, easy to use DAW.

However my recommendation for MIDI and VST Instrument users is Cubase, hands down.

I can second a lot of this. I wouldn't call it a hobbyist DAW as a blanket statement, but a hobbyist-DAW when it comes to some MIDI capabilities? Sure. That'd be fair.

Anyway, I'm a Studio One user. I'd estimate that half or slightly over half of my tracks are MIDI based. On the audio side of things, I really like Studio One. On the workflow side of things, I really like Studio One. For basic MIDI and Vritual Instruments Studio One works pretty well. However, when you want to incorporate MIDI hardware, or transmit MIDI across multiple channels, or do deep MIDI editing, need built-in notation, MIDI transforming, an Event List, etc., Studio One is far behind Sonar and Cubase. My hope is that version 4 will try to catch up to Cubase on the MIDI side of things to lure in Sonar, and Cubase users just like the version 3 lifecycle was dedicated to going after Pro Tools user by making big audio and mixing updates.

My advice? Demo Studio One and build a typical project in it. If you're not doing really complex MIDI stuff, you may find that it fits your needs very well. If you are, you may hit a wall. Your options would then be, do your hardcore MIDI work in Sonar and/or bring it into Studio One once complete, or say, "Cubase it is then!"

I'd honestly have jumped ship to Cubase from Sonar but reasons I haven't include:

• I don't click with it's workflow
• Another dongle - no thanks (if it just used iLok like everyone else, I'd be fine)
• Expensive with limited to non-existent crossgrade opportunities, and then there's things like
• Lack of sidechain support for VST2 plugins
• How it tries to force VST3 adoption
• Limited insert slots (seems like this was finally just increased)
• How poorly they treat their customers in terms of paid annual upgrades including .5 versions
• Cubase customers complaining constantly of longstanding bugs - they're not the happiest customer-base

On the other hand, Studio One's workflow and tendency to throw out major features at no cost (take a look at the updates from 3.1 to 3.5 so far) ingratiate a portion of the user base to Presonus. My only big, big complaints about it are the lack of in-depth MIDI and the generally slower development pace compared to other DAWs. Sure, there's stupid little things like it's clunky tempo drawing, or how you can't both loop and pre-roll to record takes, but it's stuff you kind of learn to work around.

Another option: keep Sonar for another year or two and see where Studio One is at that time. They may have addressed a lot of these MIDI features by then.

[lingyai]

Now doesn't seem to be the right time to move to Studio One, given the latest version's problems with midi (and other things)

https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=27074