KVR Audio

deep'n'dark · Post by **deep'n'dark** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:07 pm

In 2002 I used Fruity Loops 3 and never really thought about anything related to sound that much. I just used my tools and just did my best. I bought Reason in 2002 and still, did my best and that's it. I must ask you though, have you ever noticed any differences in " need to mix really really accurately in a DAW X compared to a DAW Y? Kind of like does any DAW forgive more than another when mixing. (DISCLAIMER, even if the reason for it are the native mastering/mixing effects).

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:40 pm

TBH, i doubt that any professional, who does mixing and mastering, really relies 100% on DAW included effects. My experience is that third party plugins are superior in most cases. I never heard a reverb in any DAW from the ones i tried (Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, Reason, Podium, FL Studio etc.) which can match a good third party reverb, for example. Or a DAW included Phaser, Chorus, or Delay effect, which sounds as good as third party ones. They're OK mostly, nothing more, nothing less.

Coincidentally, the best reverb i ever heard in a DAW is Reason's RV7000. That's surprisingly good.

deep'n'dark · Post by **deep'n'dark** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:57 pm

chk071 wrote:TBH, i doubt that any professional, who does mixing and mastering, really relies 100% on DAW included effects. My experience is that third party plugins are superior in most cases. I never heard a reverb in any DAW from the ones i tried (Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, Reason, Podium, FL Studio etc.) which can match a good third party reverb, for example. Or a DAW included Phaser, Chorus, or Delay effect, which sounds as good as third party ones. They're OK mostly, nothing more, nothing less.

Coincidentally, the best reverb i ever heard in a DAW is Reason's RV7000. That's surprisingly good.

I find myself in the situations, when I must mix in such a big accurate-levels like 0,06 db or even less. Finding these "sweetspots" settings is really hard and if you had some beer or just a weird day, you just make things worse.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:04 pm

When doing automation I really like how ProTools and Cubase do double curves doing relative changes - and not until you freeze it into regular automation does it become one curve. This works for both regular automation and VCA fader groups.

To clarify - you get total automation and the relative you did so far.

And at least in Cubase you can set it to manual - to freeze manually when you feel you are done.

I missed that in Sonar. You could do relative changes - but no visuals what you did.

That could be one convenient thing to look for to choose your daw.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Live shows horizontal guide line for automation lane of its effects' values which are temp-sync parameters. It's unexpectedly handy.

inkwarp · Post by **inkwarp** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:41 pm

The more i practice making music, the more i start to think of mixing in a qualitive way. I don't think a particular DAW is much of an issue. if you've used FL for 10 years you will surely have developed an idea of what you are after. Something to aim for.
and mixing requires some talent as much as any artforrm.
Software is a means to an end... andf the more you zone in on what you want the more you will produce what you want whatever tools you have.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:25 pm

I only when stopped using Compressors/EQs in every track, my (simple) mixes begin to sound better

The only thing I use is a limiter/maximizer to push the volume up a little bit and in this I like more my results in Reason and FL Studio (more than in Cubase) using their native plugs mostly, but I'm novice in mixing/mastering and won't be bothered learning more!

Anyway, I believe it is first and most important is the source sounds then just knowing your tools fine and how to use them. Most of the DAWs have 'OK/good' plugins for doing the jobs (for non professionals). Some have better quality plugins than others (like Logic and Samplitude, so I heard) but how much difference they make for a non-professional or for a musician only?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:14 pm

My mixing journey really begins with obtaining quality compressors and EQ that I get on with really well.
Third-party, Cubase's basics didn't help me. At the time, SX1 had a multiband compressor with a teeny-tiny interface that would still mystify me today as to what to do. I have a couple of them, VSL's in Vienna Suite and 'Classic' one by IKMM which are pretty darned clear as to what happens, for instance.

Cubase now has what is a go-to for EQ, Frequency, however. I hated the convo reverb they have.

I agree with knowing your source, get the best from source that you can and knowing the tools. But some things impart better sound than others, beyond that.

I do some large-ish and complex mixes and there's a lot of competing and conflicting things potentially, I can't rely on consistency of sources like that and here I use compression and EQ on easily the majority of channels. I use an exciter pretty frequently as well. I don't use limiters to alter the gain at the master bus at all, I treat things individually and rather surgically rather than buss FX. As to reverb, there is certainly a range from very bad to excellent in sound. A lot of people love the Space Designer in Logic, I never really got on with creating music in Logic however. I like the vintage comp by IKMM a lot but I don't really understand it.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:45 pm

Well, Logic has the best overall plugs. I had Logic 9 with my Hackintosh and really loved the experience. But I realized I need a Mac for the best experience and problems free environment. Anyway, I ended assembling Ryzen 5 PC and purchasing un upgrade to Cubase 9 Pro

I suffer from last minute decision sometimes!

The reverbs in Cubase are not nice, but in Reason the RV7000 is better. Still, there is a need for me to buy a good 3rd party reverbs. I like mostly the ones from Eventide, but they are iLok and I'm avoiding it now. Valhalla's reverbs are good as well, so I might buy a couple of them. For now I use mostly the one in Korg's MDE-X which I find OK. I might also buy the Tsar one from Softube.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:54 pm

Do check out Valhalla Plate, such a fast pleaser.

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:20 am

deep'n'dark wrote:In 2002 I used Fruity Loops 3 and never really thought about anything related to sound that much. I just used my tools and just did my best. I bought Reason in 2002 and still, did my best and that's it. I must ask you though, have you ever noticed any differences in " need to mix really really accurately in a DAW X compared to a DAW Y? Kind of like does any DAW forgive more than another when mixing. (DISCLAIMER, even if the reason for it are the native mastering/mixing effects).

Except for 'back in the day', I've hardly ever used in-house standard plugs for anything (tracktion's built-in reverb occasionally comes in handy).
I don't think any DAW is more 'accurate' than another unless you count weird ones like Harrison which include a mixing bus simulation in the DAW itself.
Personally I favour the izotope plugins for accuracy, though the interface of their latest ones makes me gag reflexively.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:41 am

Zexila wrote:Do check out Valhalla Plate, such a fast pleaser.

All of them are nice ones! If I want to buy two for now, they would be Vintage Verb and Shimmer. But both together are $100 which is not cheap for me. The developer should consider making a bundle sale!

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:29 am

Been mixing in Samplitude for over 20 years now.
Samplitude's native effects are pretty damn good.
The Ammunition mastering plugin is amazing.

G

kb420 · Post by **kb420** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:11 pm

I primarily use Cubase and Live. Both have pretty good included effects, especially when it comes to eq and compression. I don't like the included reverbs that much in either program. The ONLY reverb that I ever really liked that was included with a DAW was a scaled down Lexicon reverb that came with an early version of Sonar. It was dxi format, and is not currently available as a vst at all, let alone 64 bit. Now, I have a group of reverbs that I use:

Valhalla Vintage Verb, Shimmer, and Room
2CAudio Aether, Breeze, and Breeze 2
Fabfilter Pro R
Sountoys
Eventide Blackhole

Other than reverb, I can actually stick to the included DAW plugins, but for basic eq, compression, and saturation, I also love Fabfilter and Izotope Neutron 2 and Ozone plugins. I have a lot more plugins than I need, but those are my favorites.

Bathrobe · Post by **Bathrobe** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:23 pm

You were talking about the sweetspot on volume.
When i first tried Slate Digital VCC the difference sounded very sublime but i found it most useful because because it has an automatable volume knob that allows for much finer volume control.

A question to People who have used lots of different DAWS and effects