Want a switch of DAW

[liquidsound]

What counts is that at the end of the day you seat back and behold your music creations.
DAWs are tools and FL is a great tool, and so Reason which it takes a long time to really master.
Focus on your music and Master the Tool. It's endless.

But if you really wish to learn another DAW then remember this:
Baby Steps = The Fastest Way To Success.

[dek88]

why dont you try launching your favorite vsti in cubase and see how you like it? you cant just launch an application and stare at the interface cause you are not set on doing something with it, you bored and scared? its only as powerfull as you make it and if you have nothing better to do then you should understand that a daw is a toolset, its work, as soon as you realize that the better off you are to start with. you launch it cause you need it, not cause you want to.

[SmooveEstrella]

Reason alone is super powerful. Honestly from your post I can assume you haven't done enough with reason. Practically any sound can be made with reason. FL Studio is fine for vst support. Just work with what you have because you might end up switching for the next daw when in reality they all do the same things just different routes to achieve it.

[InvisibleMonster]

Ableton was the first program I started with when it came to music production. I read/watched tutorials and still couldn't get the hang of it. I switched to FL Studio and began making music. It wasn't necessarily easier to learn, I just committed myself to learning it more than Ableton.

After a while with FL studio I started to get frustrated. Not with the quality of the DAW, just with my workflow. I decided to buy a copy of Ableton and commit myself to learning it. All of the things I taught myself in FL Studio translated over to Ableton seamlessly. It took me about a week to understand how Ableton "worked" and I'm still learning new tricks. FL Studio helped me to understand that most DAWs are fundamentally the same.

I'm still fairly new to music production. However, I'm beginning to realize that no matter what software you use, you're only limited by your creativity. If your workflow is suffering I would consider trying out a few demos.

[Resonator63]

FL is great if you like the workflow.
I wanted to work in a more linear way so I switched to Studio One.
Don't forget FL can be used as a vst in other hosts or rewired

[The Telenator]

Zynewave Podium 3.10 and REAPER 4.15. I have both and love them. Often I use them together now with ReWire, using REAPER as the slave unit. They complement each other well.

If you feel the need to go spend upwards of $500 for certain other IMHO snob-appeal DAWs, as I once did, I doubt anyone will stop you, but it is truly unnecessary. Some of those, depending on the current release, have more bugs and issues than the less expensive ones I mentioned.

Best Wishes and Happy Hunting!

[Nicolas Oliver]

pls delete

[The Telenator]

My oldest son does the live electronica thing on laptop, and Ableton Live 8 is perfectly suited to that genre. Of course, workflow, personal preferences and musical goals all figure into this discussion heavily, so we can only tell our own stories, but I would certainly agree that of the "real money" DAWs Live 8 is truly top-notch and worth every penny. Everything about it says professional and modern to me. Comes with a nice package of usable extra features as well. It would be my choice, too, if I weren't already a Cubase refugee who ditched Steinberg for Podium and REAPER -- and currently too busy and having too much fun to switch again.

[Syncretia]

Don't know if this is the proper forum to post this, but I'm currently using FL Studio Rewired with Reason.
The thing is, I'm very pleased with my set up but I really want to learn how to use one of those powerful DAW's like Cubase and Logic.
The thing is they scare me off because they are simply too complex for me, I'm always used to that dragging sounds in and just chaining them, I hate bothering with adding MIDI and Audios and splitting Midis for drums and whatnot...(you get the idea, what I'm talking about).
Do any of you guys have any tips of what to do and how to come around this issue/Fear? Because as soon as I see this I immediately close down the software because of the fear that it will get over-complicated...
I need help because I really want to learn how to use these powerful tools, since alot of people use them, and I don't want to have the trouble of not knowing how to learn how to use that DAW when someone who, for an example, wants to collaborate with me uses the software and I have no clue on how to use it...

Yeah. Use Ableton.

Ableton is as powerful as Logic, but much more simple to use. Some people have some preconceptions about Ableton's ability to mix or the infamous summing engine but that's all bull@#$#! Read this:

http://tarekith.com/sound-quality-live-versus-logic/

This is why Ableton is great:

-Clean user interface (maximises real estate on your screen)
-Instruments/FX are stripped down to the most important features so most knobs have an immediate impact on sound
-Massive, vibrant user community with loads of tutorial content. Check out Mr Bill and Tom Cosm. These guys will get you started in no time!
-Extensible. You can use MaxForLive to build your own plugins, or even write Python to extend your controllers
-Great support. Ableton actually get back to you with useful answers
-Instrument/FX racks kick ass!

The reason you find Logic and Cubase daunting is that they are overcomplicated. Although some people may argue that the extra complexity is there for a Reason (no pun intended), I've never come across anything I could do in Logic that I couldn't do in Ableton. However, there's heaps of stuff I can do in Ableton that either can't be done in Logic, or is really time consuming and difficult.

[The Telenator]

My sympathy goes to musicians such as Ahseyo who stated that some (or most) DAWS are intimidating. I've heard this several times over the years. About the best thing I could say to feelings of being intimidated is -- you don't have to be.

First of all, the core function all of these DAWs serve is indeed truly the same. Many of them are operated in much the same way as well. After this, let's be clear that every one has its assortment of features and in that sense no two are exactly the same yet some are quite similar. Depending on each person's unique needs, these features or the lack thereof may or may not matter. If someone isn't at all interested in MIDI and the DAW he or she has chosen happens to be missing various features helpful in using MIDI, then this particular lack shouldn't matter one bit.

Personally, I am pretty familiar with the features of just about every one that has any worth or popularity, and I've used about half of them at one time or the other. In my experience, I can safely state that every one, every DAW, is lacking in one or more feature. There is no one "most powerful" DAW. Making statments of this sort suggest brainwashing and is beyond silly, so let's get beyond this sort of nonsense. In fact, the more expensive ones are not always the ones with the most or "best" (again, depending on one's needs) features. You will discover very little correlation between price and quality. I have freeware plugins that are truly incredible and $200 ones that are complete crap. As in the rest of life, most expensive does not always mean best.

Decide which features you must have, which ones you'd also like to have, which ones you can live without, and which ones you don't need. Then, why don't you check the feature specs on the various available brands? Obviously, needs can change, but let's keep things simple for the moment, shall we?

Next, is the so-called "workflow" issue. Although, as I said, most operate roughly the same, there are indeed differences very small on up to rather significant. As with these false claims of "most powerful DAW," it's also irresponsible to go around telling others that one has a better workflow than any other, because you can never know another person's work preferences. You can, of course, relate you own experiences. But don't be a fool and speak for other users.

The User Interface. I believe it really helps if you can stand to look at your DAW, especially if you intend to work a serious 5-hour session. That's just common sense, right? So, yes, appearance is rather important, too.

There are a million tutorial vids out there. You may know others who have various software. Want to know workflow? Want to see if you'll like a particular workstation? Go see for yourself and don't make the huge mistake of listening to the intense bias that I'm seeing here in this thread. Be very wary of those who go beyond their own experiences and start sounding like pushy salesmen making outrageous and sometimes inaccurate claims. In fact, run -- run from these people. They are not helping you. I can tell you the ones I like best and use, but I wouldn't begin to insist you will like them also.

Regarding advice, avoid that of those who switch DAWs every fews minutes. Trust me, they have issues and it's not the stinking DAW they are using this week that's causing the problem. Unlikely they will create anything worthwhile on anything.

What I'm seeing entirely too much of these days, including here, is kids who go out and buy all this audio junk and really don't have a clue about the technical side of music. They simply don't know what they are doing. Anyone can now record a Grammy-winning album on their coffee table now since this revolution in affordable pro technology, but the only explosion we see is not in tonnes more world-shattering music but instead a huge glut of unmemorable music often poorly produced. This is very telling of the underlying problem. Few of these would-be star music producers have ever studied as tonemeisters, never taken courses in the physics of sound, music theory, never been taught by real professionals, and basically know next to nothing. Some will never develop good "ears" either, as some will not work hard and some just don't have the talent for it. Sad but true. They should go become plumbers or telemarketers.

Half have never read the entire manual for their DAW and about half understand little of what they did read because they skim or are texting the GF while reading, etc. No wonder music is currently in such a sorry state. All of the above stuff is a big part of the reason.

To your fears that DAWs are complicated I might agree, except it depends on what you mean by complicated. Certainly they are to a know-nothing. If anyone thinks they are going to make pro CDs by "winging it" and not bothering to read, study and learn, then certainly they are very complicated. Yet anyone with experience recording elsewhere -- perhaps years ago with analog tape, or someone having mixed/recorded for live acts for at least a few months -- ought to be able to switch to ANY DAW without an anxiety attack. Anyone starting totally green ought to simply read the manual, test each offered feature one at a time, make a few test clips, LISTEN a lot to the quality of recordings from your favorite artists, and essentially be prepared to spend at least a SOLID YEAR getting acquainted, confident and feeling fully ready to record quality work. THEN, one probably won't feel intimidated and won't believe DAWs are all that complicated.

Look, these DAWs are really just what we used to call "tape recorders" and that's about it. Of course, you need to learn what the knobs do on a toaster so you won't ruin your breakfast. Don't be intimidated either by those who like to throw around all the technical jargon to seem important or knowledgeable. Terminology is indeed important, but you can learn these bits as you go. I find an unacceptable amount of misinformation on the Net, particularly regarding mixdown -- outright lies at times -- but, assuming one is somewhat Net savvy and knows how to check sources and weed out BS, there is everything one needs to learn right there and largely FREE. Assuming young people still know how to read, I'd strongly suggest at least an hour of that each day.

If my tone sounds like it is betraying my annoyance, then indeed you are correct. Of all places, a forum such as KVR ought to be overwhelmingly accurate and helpful. Certainly, nothing is ever 100% -- we all make errors at times -- yet in the short time I've passed by here I've noted a boatload of (sometimes intentional) misinformation, posing and utter nonsense. There are personal testimonies, opinions, and there are things known as facts -- and some of you would do well to respect the definitions and differences of them.

Many, many of my colleagues simply sit back and have a good laugh at the current sorry state of affairs, and I'm well aware I'm wasting my time right now on some of you. But in the end, each person only has himself to blame for ignorance and mediocrity -- and the choice to waste one's life this way is completely yours. Happy Hunting!

[hibidy]

It's takes work. Nothing good is free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. It takes pressure to make a diamond out of coalreaper

[canadianlight]

Although some people may argue that the extra complexity is there for a Reason (no pun intended), I've never come across anything I could do in Logic that I couldn't do in Ableton. However, there's heaps of stuff I can do in Ableton that either can't be done in Logic, or is really time consuming and difficult.

How do the successful hollywood producers work? Do they also leave 99% of the buttons untouched?

If they learned their trade decades earlier, I suppose they would have to "go back to school" if they suddenly adopted the level of complexity that is marketed today. (unless of course as you say most features are ignored)

[MorteKai]

Fl Studio with Reason, and you're still not happy??

FL Studio, allows the user to create in which ever way the want, there is NO specific workflow you have to use, it's a vst too, you have lifetime free updates, like the new live mode, and if it doesn't have what you want right now...... chances are, that FL Studio will get those features down the line,..

Reason, is also another powerful tool, which to me is a top-shelf product.

I would say, get some free plugins and audio-workstation, and play around with those (They will have less features, and will take more time to get what you want - sound-wise) then when you're totally sick of it, go back to FL Studio & Reason, and fully appreciate the setup you already own.

Sometimes you have to lose something first before you can truly appreciate what you had.

PS: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

[hibidy]

It's takes work. Nothing good is free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. It takes pressure to make a diamond out of coalreaper

I must have had a bit of the nip when I wrote this

I hate them all. I find it inexcusable that in this day and age you have to jump through so many hoops to do simple things.

[kennyda]

Ableton all the way. FL wired into Reason will do the job but Ableton is just so much easier to use. With Reason you spend half your time scrolling up and down a huge rack and the wiring is a nightmare. None of that in Ableton. 99% of the time you don't have to do any routing. I used Reason 2 for a couple of years and still never understood basic routing of effects and so on, it would keep changing when I added something and getting messed up. In Ableton, if you want an effect you just drag it from the browser or double click it and it's there, all on one screen.

I've taken making it simple a few steps further with my website, which is targeted at Mac users but PC users could still read it, they would just need to translate the shortcuts etc. I show the best shortcuts, custom one finger shortcuts, one finger control of knobs, sliders etc, and tutorials, free plugins and so on.

In Live, the native devices don't need separate windows, so I recommend going for Suite unless you already have various VSTs and a multisampler.

Have a look at my site if you are considering Live, even if you use a PC, to get a feel for it.

I also have a page which shows some cheap and easy ways to have full instant hardware control of at least 40 knobs (8 knobs each on 5 devices) using one basic midi controller.