I am not getting better... (songwriting)
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 67 posts since 13 Aug, 2014
I know that sound design and everything is pretty much a science... I have most of an idea of what the different features do, I have an understanding of the basic ADSR envelope, and stuff like that. I purchased Massive and it's tutorials (and watched them lol). Also purchased Ableton Live 9 just so I can start with it and learn it in and out since I've heard its a very complex DAW. Anyways, I try to learn through youtube, but I'm not sure what to learn. When I try to create songs and sounds I look up how to do what I want to do in my head... and although it's fairly evident that there are tons of tutorials on youtube, nothing really applies to the genre I'd like to create. The artists that got me into producing (or trying to, at least) is mainly Flume and Purity Ring. I can make a good drum beat, a chilled out one, or a trap one, the drums are fairly simple but when it comes to composing songs and stuff, does that all just happen in the imagination? I mean I know that chord progression and majors and minors and stuff is all theory (I do play guitar 6+ years), but I can't seem to get anything that sounds pretty decent. It sounds alright in the heat of the moment, but then I play a couple of Flume songs for some inspiration and realize that what I've created is complete sh** lol.
SOOOO.... How did you get better at the songwriting part?
Also, I've been trying to recreate a lot of Flume songs as a ways to learn it.
One more thing (sorry), when I do feel like I have something good, I feel like vocals are the only thing that would complete it. With a bunch of flume songs he has different vocals and some are not features (...ft. Moon Holiday for example), so does he find the vocals online and use them? Whats the copyright on that?
SOOOO.... How did you get better at the songwriting part?
Also, I've been trying to recreate a lot of Flume songs as a ways to learn it.
One more thing (sorry), when I do feel like I have something good, I feel like vocals are the only thing that would complete it. With a bunch of flume songs he has different vocals and some are not features (...ft. Moon Holiday for example), so does he find the vocals online and use them? Whats the copyright on that?
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- KVRAF
- 21350 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
Stop thinking of it like "a science" might be a good start. If you think it's all about sound design then you are limiting yourself greatly.
Try by starting with other people's songs. Dismantle them - see how they are constructed. If you play guitar, just sit down and play anything, don't worry what it is, until you come up with something you like, and then start writing some words. Or do it the other way round - write some words and then sit down and try to come up with a vocal melody.
Either way, you're only going to get there through practice. Keep writing, and keep playing around with new chords and melodies. It doesn't matter if your first efforts don't sound that good, keep trying new stuff until you start hearing something that really works for you.
I have no idea about that particular artist so can't comment on him/her/them specifically.
Try by starting with other people's songs. Dismantle them - see how they are constructed. If you play guitar, just sit down and play anything, don't worry what it is, until you come up with something you like, and then start writing some words. Or do it the other way round - write some words and then sit down and try to come up with a vocal melody.
Either way, you're only going to get there through practice. Keep writing, and keep playing around with new chords and melodies. It doesn't matter if your first efforts don't sound that good, keep trying new stuff until you start hearing something that really works for you.
I have no idea about that particular artist so can't comment on him/her/them specifically.
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- KVRAF
- 10071 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
i'm not getting better as a writer too, but the music is more and more adjusted to me and so i feel better. and this is more important at least to me.
"It dreamed itself along"
- KVRAF
- 3303 posts since 6 Jul, 2012 from Sick-cily
I'm f..k myself especially with lyrics... but with some little help (a glass of good wine or talking\joking with my friends) I succeed so I let the flow of ideas flowing fluid...
As robojam said: Stop thinking of it like "a science" might be a good start... Music is also emotion, you must have something to say, you must feel something inside and all this you have to channel it...
... is a bit like making farts or burps but if you find the right mood you can shape them to your liking...
... However, I understand that sometimes the process can be tormented but this could also be a positive challenge!
Good Luck|
As robojam said: Stop thinking of it like "a science" might be a good start... Music is also emotion, you must have something to say, you must feel something inside and all this you have to channel it...
... is a bit like making farts or burps but if you find the right mood you can shape them to your liking...
... However, I understand that sometimes the process can be tormented but this could also be a positive challenge!
Good Luck|
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- KVRAF
- 10071 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
have you listened to my music lately?Turello wrote: ... is a bit like making farts or burps but if you find the right mood you can shape them to your liking...
Good Luck|
"It dreamed itself along"
- KVRAF
- 3303 posts since 6 Jul, 2012 from Sick-cily
@Mellotron: unfortunately no, how to find please? I'm curious...
PS: IMHO a lot of farts and burps often are nice than a lot of songs...
Anyway to do\produce Music should be a pleasure
PS: IMHO a lot of farts and burps often are nice than a lot of songs...
Anyway to do\produce Music should be a pleasure
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- KVRAF
- 10071 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
there is something about 1914 in the monthly contest ... music café ... and i agree with your comment.Turello wrote:@Mellotron: unfortunately no, how to find please? I'm curious...
PS: IMHO a lot of farts and burps often are nice than a lot of songs...
"It dreamed itself along"
- KVRAF
- 3303 posts since 6 Jul, 2012 from Sick-cily
@Mellotronaut: Find just one song called "giant-garage-mushroom"..!
Excuse my audacity but (sincerely) sometimes I wondered what music could make one with your (simpatic!) face... Well, giant-garage-mushroom is GREAT (i feel some subtle psichedelic and 70 prog flavour that i like, confess it!!!) !
"BERLIN" are very estranging and alienating (good idea coupled the song with that image!), extraordinary the return with acoustic drums and strings synths when seems the song is ended...
Excuse my audacity but (sincerely) sometimes I wondered what music could make one with your (simpatic!) face... Well, giant-garage-mushroom is GREAT (i feel some subtle psichedelic and 70 prog flavour that i like, confess it!!!) !
"BERLIN" are very estranging and alienating (good idea coupled the song with that image!), extraordinary the return with acoustic drums and strings synths when seems the song is ended...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 67 posts since 13 Aug, 2014
Hey guys OP here, sorry to confuse you, but I didn't mean lyrically haha. I try for lyrics when I'm trying to construct songs with guitar and stuff, but what I meant was songwriting in electronic aspects. Coming up with the intro, introducing new sounds, different fourth measures, all of that jazz, on the DAW. Coming up with a good song, and not just good sounds is my struggle..
That being said, thank you all so much for the replies... I understand practice makes better. Thanks again.
That being said, thank you all so much for the replies... I understand practice makes better. Thanks again.
- KVRAF
- 8620 posts since 2 Oct, 2006 from Leeds, UK
WillNeighbour, maybe this'll help a bit. http://vimeo.com/85040589
In a nutshell you have finish a lot of crap to get to the good stuff but watch it.
In a nutshell you have finish a lot of crap to get to the good stuff but watch it.
Latest release and Socials: https://linktr.ee/ph.i.ltr3
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 67 posts since 13 Aug, 2014
Musikmachine, I feel like I saw that somewhere! Very inspiring indeed, however. I don't have any problem with putting in work, part of me (and I think everyone can sort of relate when they're beginners) just wants to see glimpses of hope...
Thank you though!
Thank you though!
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- KVRian
- 702 posts since 19 Mar, 2014 from Denver, CO
The more you go through the process, the more critical your ear will become. Then, when you listen to your favorite artists songs, you'll hear the small changes every 4, 8, or 16 bars and come up with musical ideas yourself. You need a critical ear, and to train your critical ear, and in my experience, coming up with that critical ear only comes with experience in doing things and realizing my stuff sounds nothing like the stuff I'm trying to emulate. (still doesn't IMO, but it's getting better and I want to have somewhat of my own style anyway)
Regarding actual sound design, it's hard to picture the true sound once it's in a mix because oftentimes in synths, the effects suck or are limited compared to what else you have in your DAW. EQing does a lot to sculpt the sound, but doesn't get done until you start mixing. So in sound design, get the basic sound. Don't worry if it's boring. You can always come back and modulate the envelope, etc. EQ and add much better effects later in the mix.
Regarding actual sound design, it's hard to picture the true sound once it's in a mix because oftentimes in synths, the effects suck or are limited compared to what else you have in your DAW. EQing does a lot to sculpt the sound, but doesn't get done until you start mixing. So in sound design, get the basic sound. Don't worry if it's boring. You can always come back and modulate the envelope, etc. EQ and add much better effects later in the mix.
- KVRAF
- 8404 posts since 2 Aug, 2005 from Guitar Land, USA
My songwriting is based on what/how I want to physically play. It can't work the other way, so maybe spend time learning on what you're good at would be beneficial.
The only site for experimental amp sim freeware & MIDI FX: http://runbeerrun.blogspot.com
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCprNcvVH6aPTehLv8J5xokA -Youtube jams
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCprNcvVH6aPTehLv8J5xokA -Youtube jams
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- KVRist
- 230 posts since 16 Nov, 2012
If you are just starting out, you are going to make tracks that are far beyond what pros make, not only do pros have more time in this, they have more experience and their own workflow.
Flume prob work on the tracks for weeks, and when they start a track it prob doesn't sound like the finished version, it just takes constant refinement.
To get better, analyze your favorite tracks like a religion, understand the arrangement, the sounds used, count it down and see where changes are made, the mix.
It's really just about understanding, and then letting your creative juices flow.
But one thing is for sure, it's not an overnight process, just make you enjoy the process!
Flume prob work on the tracks for weeks, and when they start a track it prob doesn't sound like the finished version, it just takes constant refinement.
To get better, analyze your favorite tracks like a religion, understand the arrangement, the sounds used, count it down and see where changes are made, the mix.
It's really just about understanding, and then letting your creative juices flow.
But one thing is for sure, it's not an overnight process, just make you enjoy the process!
- KVRAF
- 8620 posts since 2 Oct, 2006 from Leeds, UK
That's what he's saying; if you feel that your not getting better you will eventually by finishing a lot of work; you'll close the gap on the music your making at that stage and the music you're aspiring to. Practise.WillNeighbor wrote:Musikmachine, I feel like I saw that somewhere! Very inspiring indeed, however. I don't have any problem with putting in work, part of me (and I think everyone can sort of relate when they're beginners) just wants to see glimpses of hope...
Thank you though!
Latest release and Socials: https://linktr.ee/ph.i.ltr3