How do I record midi after it goes through a vst?

[johnjaypl]

I send a midi track through a rack with some midi vsts that modify the midi data. I'd like to record the modified midi so I can compare the sequence with the original. It seems like a simple thing to do but I can't figure out how to do it with Mulab.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

John

[mutools]

That's not (yet) possible.

Unless you setup a MIDI loop in your system using MidiYoke (Windows) or something like that.

[johnjaypl]

That's not (yet) possible.

Unless you setup a MIDI loop in your system using MidiYoke (Windows) or something like that.

Thanks, I added a midi looback app. I now seem to have a midi feedback loop. Is there a way to break that? That is, how do I make the midi input only go to the track I'm recording on and not have the midi input also go to the midioutput within mulab?

John

[pljones]

I don't think it's going to work unless you do a little more.

You'll need to have two MIDI channels -- one for what you're playing and one for what you're recording. You'll need MIDI OX as well as MIDI Yoke. Use MIDI OX to change the channel number as it passes the messages from Yoke 1 Input to Yoke 2 output. Then make sure you route your Channel 1 (from physical input) through your MIDI effect and out to Yoke 1 but route Channel 2 (from Yoke 2) input out to NOWHERE.

[johnjaypl]

I don't think it's going to work unless you do a little more.

You'll need to have two MIDI channels -- one for what you're playing and one for what you're recording. You'll need MIDI OX as well as MIDI Yoke. Use MIDI OX to change the channel number as it passes the messages from Yoke 1 Input to Yoke 2 output. Then make sure you route your Channel 1 (from physical input) through your MIDI effect and out to Yoke 1 but route Channel 2 (from Yoke 2) input out to NOWHERE.

Thanks for the help.

I ended up not getting midi yoke because it has complications with windows vista. I got another midi looper MidiloopB. Will that work? It does seem to loop back.

I simplified my setup, got rid of racks and such and manualy hook things up.

I seem to be missing some concept here. I can't understand why this is hard.
I can't see where the feedback loop is coming from. I mean, why can't I just wire it up in the modular plug in area? If Mulab worked the way I wire it up then I could understand what it was doing. It seems to do other stuff too. Why? I don't get it.

All I want to have happens is:

1) a track with a sequence in it

2) the output of 1) goes through a couple of midiin midiout plugings

3) the output of 2 goes through a minimogue and then the audio goes out.

4) the output of 2 also goes through midi out

5) midiloopB loops midiout to midiin

6) midiin gets recorded on a sequence track.

Why can't a single midi channel number do this? That is, why aren't the obvious breaks in my setup able to break the feedback loop?

I think it would help a lot if I understood that.

Thanks,

John

[pljones]

MU.LAB records external MIDI Input. (In the same way, it records external Audio Input.)

MIDI Output from a module is not external MIDI Input and cannot be (directly) recorded. (In the same way, Audio Output from a module is not external Audio Input and cannot be (directly) recorded.)

To make it MIDI Input, you have to route it - externally to MU.LAB - from an external MIDI output to an external MIDI input.

Once you have recorded your MIDI (or Audio) input, you can then work with it within MU.LAB. But MU.LAB does not re-record the MIDI (or Audio) signals internally. (With the specific except of Mixdown to Audio part - and that isn't really part of this discussion as it makes no difference whether it's dealing with MIDI or Audio signals.)

[johnjaypl]

MU.LAB records external MIDI Input. (In the same way, it records external Audio Input.)

MIDI Output from a module is not external MIDI Input and cannot be (directly) recorded. (In the same way, Audio Output from a module is not external Audio Input and cannot be (directly) recorded.)

To make it MIDI Input, you have to route it - externally to MU.LAB - from an external MIDI output to an external MIDI input.

Once you have recorded your MIDI (or Audio) input, you can then work with it within MU.LAB. But MU.LAB does not re-record the MIDI (or Audio) signals internally. (With the specific except of Mixdown to Audio part - and that isn't really part of this discussion as it makes no difference whether it's dealing with MIDI or Audio signals.)

Yes I understand what you say. And I am using an external loopback module to connect the midi output back into mulab. And that does work. The problem is that the midi in does not just go to the track that is recording it but also ends up back in the midi out, creating a feedback loop (as I believe you were trying to help me avoid in your earlier post.) The question is: why does this create a feeback loop? I don't see the path.

As another experiment I tried launching two versions of mulab, one to play my midi vsts and another to record the medi. I used my midi loopback. This did work, more or less, a few strange results as the two tools encountered each other but I did manage to record the midi I created with one problem. The midi recorded was at a bit slower tempo than the midi played. Both versions of mulab were set to the same tempo. It wasn't ideal but I could have lived with it for the simple experiment that I'm trying to do but the tempo difference is no good.

[Juan Mendoza]

Hi,

also note that if you have a hardware unit with midi IN and THRU (maybe your midi controller has them) you can make the loop and set the routing in the modular area to avoid a feedback loop.

[pljones]

The problem is that the midi in does not just go to the track that is recording it but also ends up back in the midi out, creating a feedback loop (as I believe you were trying to help me avoid in your earlier post.) The question is: why does this create a feeback loop? I don't see the path.

Ah, sorry, misunderstood your post.

You're doing something like this:

Source -> MULAB
MULAB -> midilooper
midilooper -> MULAB
MULAB -> midilooper
(repeat)

You need to prevent the data coming in from "midilooper" ever leaving. Which means you have to treat it differently from the data coming in from "Source". Which means you need some way to identify it.

MULAB doesn't let you process based on MIDI Input (a feature I'd quite like...) but does let you process based on MIDI Channel. So you need to have input from "Source" on one channel and input from "midilooper" on a different channel. You can probably get a MIDI plugin that will do it (on the way out, of course).

You should aim for:
In(Ch1) -> MULAB -> (Ch2)Out -> looper -> In(Ch2) -> MULAB

[johnjaypl]

The problem is that the midi in does not just go to the track that is recording it but also ends up back in the midi out, creating a feedback loop (as I believe you were trying to help me avoid in your earlier post.) The question is: why does this create a feeback loop? I don't see the path.

Ah, sorry, misunderstood your post.

You're doing something like this:

Source -> MULAB
MULAB -> midilooper
midilooper -> MULAB
MULAB -> midilooper
(repeat)

You need to prevent the data coming in from "midilooper" ever leaving. Which means you have to treat it differently from the data coming in from "Source". Which means you need some way to identify it.

MULAB doesn't let you process based on MIDI Input (a feature I'd quite like...) but does let you process based on MIDI Channel. So you need to have input from "Source" on one channel and input from "midilooper" on a different channel. You can probably get a MIDI plugin that will do it (on the way out, of course).

You should aim for:
In(Ch1) -> MULAB -> (Ch2)Out -> looper -> In(Ch2) -> MULAB

Thanks for the info.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by "Source". What data is comming in from "Source"? I think this is part of what I'm missing conceptionally about the problem.

I've now switched to MU.LAB 3.??? and it seems to have a limitation of 1 midi input/output. I tried to set up the midi channels like you suggested but when I went to set up the second one I got an upgrade prompt. Am I understanding that correctly. That didn't seem to happen in 2.7. Can you only have an input or an output in the free version of 3.0?

John

[johnjaypl]

The problem is that the midi in does not just go to the track that is recording it but also ends up back in the midi out, creating a feedback loop (as I believe you were trying to help me avoid in your earlier post.) The question is: why does this create a feeback loop? I don't see the path.

Ah, sorry, misunderstood your post.

You're doing something like this:

Source -> MULAB
MULAB -> midilooper
midilooper -> MULAB
MULAB -> midilooper
(repeat)

You need to prevent the data coming in from "midilooper" ever leaving. Which means you have to treat it differently from the data coming in from "Source". Which means you need some way to identify it.

MULAB doesn't let you process based on MIDI Input (a feature I'd quite like...) but does let you process based on MIDI Channel. So you need to have input from "Source" on one channel and input from "midilooper" on a different channel. You can probably get a MIDI plugin that will do it (on the way out, of course).

You should aim for:
In(Ch1) -> MULAB -> (Ch2)Out -> looper -> In(Ch2) -> MULAB

Thanks for the info.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by "Source". What data is comming in from "Source". I think this is part of what I'm missing conceptionally about the problem.

I've now switched to MU.LAB 3.??? and it seems to have a limitation of 1 midi input/output. I tried to set up the midi channels like you suggested but when I went to set up the second one I got an upgrade prompt. Am I understanding that correctly? That didn't seem to happen in 2.7. Can you only have a midi input OR a midi output in the free version of 3.0?

(Edit: Since posting this I've gone back and checked the 3.0 docs and it should allow a midi in and a midi out. I don't know why it gives me the upgrade prompt.)

John

[mutools]

That's a bug in M3. Fixed in the next version. Thanks!

[pljones]

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by "Source". What data is comming in from "Source". I think this is part of what I'm missing conceptionally about the problem.

That's any live MIDI Input coming in from outside MULAB. If you're working only with MIDI inside MULAB, you can ignore that line. It makes no difference to the problem.