M4 Test

[Trancit]

I had a quick look at MuDrum, but could really use a small tutorial or something to get me started as I haven't found out yet what I can do with it and how it actually works. I guess at this stage the M4 manuals/tutorials are yet to be released, right?

Here you go for a little starters tutorial:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... MuDrum.pdf

[pljones]

Think both issues are related a bit for the VST plugin manager is in the application-level window which is a bit unusual when coming from M3.

The first impression is that the "application-level window" is a "run once on first run" window that some applications have for initial, pre-use set up. The fact it's covered up when the main window appears enforces this impression. It's an unusual way of organising an application - I can't think of another that works like this. Everything is usually available from the main application window, including all program options (Tools->Options, Edit->Settings, etc). So you're bound to end up with a large number of confused and lost users.

[janamdo]

Won't it be confusing/weird to have these options so close to eachother?

Yes it makes no sense to make double menu entrances, so only new existing menu entrances are neccessary

So if you add to the bottom of the MUSESSION menu :
Setup
More
Info
Quit


Than the problem is solved and add demo session to the the top

And perhaps you can add session to new.. and the others too

[mutools]

Think both issues are related a bit for the VST plugin manager is in the application-level window which is a bit unusual when coming from M3.

The first impression is that the "application-level window" is a "run once on first run" window that some applications have for initial, pre-use set up. The fact it's covered up when the main window appears enforces this impression. It's an unusual way of organising an application - I can't think of another that works like this. Everything is usually available from the main application window, including all program options (Tools->Options, Edit->Settings, etc). So you're bound to end up with a large number of confused and lost users.

How would you solve this?

What do you think of the separate "MULAB" menu button near the "MUSESSION" menu button?

[mutools]

Won't it be confusing/weird to have these options so close to eachother?

Yes it makes no sense to make double menu entrances, so only new existing menu entrances are neccessary

There are no "double" menu entries.

The MULAB menu is everything which is on application level, common to all sessions, for example audio setup, vst plugin manager, etc.

MULAB -> New Session will create a new session without touching the open ones.
MUSESSION -> New will clear that specific session and init it as a new session.

These functions are different, and both are usable options.
It depends on your musical context which one you want to use.

Is the MULAB - MUSESSION menu button (cfr the picture) what you want?

[janamdo]

What do you think of the separate "MULAB" menu button near the "MUSESSION" menu button?

No...
You add a submenu ..example if you choose setup than a submenu is coming right next musession menu column

[janamdo]

Won't it be confusing/weird to have these options so close to eachother?

Yes it makes no sense to make double menu entrances, so only new existing menu entrances are neccessary

There are no "double" menu entries.

So "New" in Musession and "New session" on startup screen are different than?
With new session you can open more than one session in Mulab

Why make this not as a choice in the musession menu..give a choice..replace or keep(=multi session ) musession

Yes i introduce here a new word for MUlab
-mulab session
-mulab multisession

[mutools]

What do you think of the separate "MULAB" menu button near the "MUSESSION" menu button?

No...
You add a submenu ..example if you choose setup than a submenu is coming right next musession menu column

Can you please post a quick mockup of what you mean?

[mutools]

So "New" in Musession and "New session" on startup screen are different than? With new session you can open more than one session in Mulab

Exactly. That's one of the new features in M4.
In fact you requested this yourself some time ago in a post where you wanted to be able to make a kind of library. Well, using multiple sessions you can achieve this.

Why make this not as a choice in the musession menu..give a choice..replace or keep(=multi session ) musession

Yes thought of that possibility too.
But then New Session/Open Session and Demo Session will all result in an extra question like "New/Open session in this session or in a new session?".
Is this ok for you guys?

And where should the "Quit" function be placed?
I won't put it under MUSESSION as that makes no sense for Quit is not a MuSession function but a MuLab function.

[mutools]

Yes it makes no sense to make double menu entrances, so only new existing menu entrances are neccessary

So if you add to the bottom of the MUSESSION menu :
Setup
More
Info
Quit

Than the problem is solved and add demo session to the the top
And perhaps you can add session to new.. and the others too

I can understand that users have a problem with the separate MuLab menu window, it felt a bit weird to myself too in the beginning but i got used to it quite fast. Anyway, reading the feedback on this it's clear it's not very liked.

But Setup, Info, Quit etc are not MuSession functions, they're MuLab functions. It's about essential program logic and i want to respect that.

I can only think of a solution that puts extra menu buttons near the MUSESSION button in the session editor window. Maybe someone sees another neat solution?

It's almost funny that something like this is difficult to solve.
But in fact it's an old time issue in many apps. In fact just looking at the Firefox menu system i'm looking at while i write this, this menu is has very illogic parts (like in most apps): For example the "File" menu got an "Exit" option. Exit a file?? Never heard of that!!

MuLab is structured in an object oriented way, like most modern software.
I think it's very ok, as well towards the tech side of the app itself, as well to the user, to reflect this OO structure in the menu system.

Quit is an application-level function and so it must be in some "MuLab" menu.

[Nielzie]

Is the MULAB - MUSESSION menu button (cfr the picture) what you want?

Yes, seems more logical then the separate windows

MULAB -> New Session will create a new session without touching the open ones.

Why not have each of them tabbed in the main Windows bar if more then one session is open? For easy switching and copying between them. That would be very nice and useful!!

MUSESSION -> New will clear that specific session and init it as a new session.

I think "MUSESSION -> New" could be renamed to "MUSESSION -> Clear Session" to it less confusing and it's what it actually does.

[pljones]

I'm all for the separation between function on "this" session and functions that apply to the session concept as a whole. I guess I really don't like the floating application window (as it's "sunk" rather than floating ). I'd be happy with a MULAB menu...

Overall, I do prefer a more usual approach for menus than the long top level list that MULAB has had for some time. I'll have a think and see if I can come up with other suggestions. I actually don't mind clicking into sub-menus, so long as they're laid out intuitively. (I always found it hard to remember which of M3's menus anything was on. The lists were just too long for me.)

Whilst I was typing:

...

+1

[Nielzie]

I had a quick look at MuDrum, but could really use a small tutorial or something to get me started as I haven't found out yet what I can do with it and how it actually works. I guess at this stage the M4 manuals/tutorials are yet to be released, right?

Here you go for a little starters tutorial:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... MuDrum.pdf

Hey thanks for that! I really appreciate your effort

[janamdo]

What do you think of the separate "MULAB" menu button near the "MUSESSION" menu button?

No...
You add a submenu ..example if you choose setup than a submenu is coming right next musession menu column

Can you please post a quick mockup of what you mean?

Yes something like this.
Adding the multisession to the single session menu entrances and extend the musession menu

Other idea is : chance the musession menu in submenu horizontal
Sessions(1)- ..(..) - Setup(n) (room enough than vertical what a disadvantage is to use only one vertical menu )
Is this a quick fix ?

[mutools]

Why not have each of them tabbed in the main Windows bar if more then one session is open? For easy switching and copying between them. That would be very nice and useful!!

Multiple session windows do appear as separate buttons on the taskbar, so you must mean something else. Which "Windows bar" do you mean?

Besides this future-oriented question, the answer at this point is that i don't have any time left to implement new things. I still have too much to do with stabelizing, polishing, optimizing and documenting M4. So this tabbed sessions idea could be a nice M4.x/M5 topic.