Emulation
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- KVRAF
- 4818 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
I find that deconstructing and tweaking tracks and racks in the MuLab Demo Sessions is helpful for learning ways to build different sounds.
s a v e
y o u r
f l o w
y o u r
f l o w
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- KVRist
- 185 posts since 12 Nov, 2009
As for various filters, op-amp simulations etc...sl23 wrote:Well, the idea is that if there are various types of certain modules, filter, amp, etc, then it would make the Mux more accessible for the less tech oriented people. Rather than going the route of create your own filter from scratch as something like Synthmaker would do. You want MuLab/Mux to kept easy to use yes? So, though I didn't mention it, that was what I had in mind.
When using the same filter design for everything it's indeed hard to make instrument design that has totally different characteristics. The same goes for SynthEdit or Synthmaker default modules - the instrument you make with them will be only a rough approximation of the real one. That's why the SDKs for expandable modules or scripting appeared - to allow the user to create their own filters from scratch. My point is that you can already do that in MUX. Expandable modules = additional vst plugs that you put somewhere in the processing chain. You can blend them with native MUX modules into new synths. If I wanted a waveshaper, different compressor or FM filter - no problem - I just load necessary vst module and put it in the chain. The same goes for processing midi. The one downsides are that you won't be able to share the presets if somebody doesn't have the same vst plugins set as you and that some modules won't be as easily conectable as the native units (they lack dedicated modulation input - you'll have to set up cc midi message instead or use 'parameter event generator').
Despite that, there's already a lot of power put in user hands and remember that from time to time some brand new fresh and tasty MUX modules are appearing
Sapling Studio Contact me at kontakt@saplingstudio.eu
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- KVRist
- 209 posts since 24 Sep, 2004
interesting discussion. this is something i've struggled with many times;creating virtual versions of synths i've owned. i've come to the conclusion that, at best, you'll get an approximation of the original sonic character you're attempting to replicate. the inherent character of individual synths contain a magic ingredient that is extremely difficult to recreate. korg managed it with the legacy collection and gmedia's virtual instruments like the oddity are spectacularly close, but the v/a modeling used must be very specifically designed , otherwise the synths inherent character is not able to be recreated.
same applies with f/x. i remember being in a studio, and being really pleased with a modeled guitar amp sound until i miked up an amp (nowt fancy;an sm58 and a basic tranny amp)in the booth and compared the two recordings. what i heard was an anaemic amp model recording versus a full, thick airy sounding miked up amped geetar track.
the mux is a versatile and fantastic sounding synth;i use it as much as korg/gmedia stuff but it wont be able to precisely emulate particular synths unless it is set up to do just that.
same applies with f/x. i remember being in a studio, and being really pleased with a modeled guitar amp sound until i miked up an amp (nowt fancy;an sm58 and a basic tranny amp)in the booth and compared the two recordings. what i heard was an anaemic amp model recording versus a full, thick airy sounding miked up amped geetar track.
the mux is a versatile and fantastic sounding synth;i use it as much as korg/gmedia stuff but it wont be able to precisely emulate particular synths unless it is set up to do just that.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2693 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
Understood 
I wasn't expecting or even looking for precision, I did mention that earlier.
I wasn't expecting or even looking for precision, I did mention that earlier.-
- KVRian
- 852 posts since 3 Mar, 2009
I just had an interesting experience.
There is this U-he Bazille Beta out and i tried to re-create a MUX patch in Bazille. The basics work but things did sound very different!
So, i started to work out how MUX could sound like Bazille.
I striped the patches down to just one square plus one saw oscillator - and they sound different! Why the #@* would they do this?
After some experimenting and a scope, it turned out that
a) start all osc at a fix phase, but detune them
b) in this particular case, have the square start at 270 deg phase and the saw at 0 deg
c) some volume tweaking
you will be greeted with very nearly the same sound.
My point is not how to emulate Bazille, but rather that the little things like the phase relationship between osc can change the sound of your patch significantly!
There is this U-he Bazille Beta out and i tried to re-create a MUX patch in Bazille. The basics work but things did sound very different!
So, i started to work out how MUX could sound like Bazille.
I striped the patches down to just one square plus one saw oscillator - and they sound different! Why the #@* would they do this?
After some experimenting and a scope, it turned out that
a) start all osc at a fix phase, but detune them
b) in this particular case, have the square start at 270 deg phase and the saw at 0 deg
c) some volume tweaking
you will be greeted with very nearly the same sound.
My point is not how to emulate Bazille, but rather that the little things like the phase relationship between osc can change the sound of your patch significantly!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2693 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
interesting thanks Andreas.
Although i titled this topic Emulation, i was not expecting replication, more a simulation. Specifically, i was interested in FX and the way the parameters of such affect the sound as they're adjusted. Just like those Korg samples i sent you, which seems to be what you're doing here.
If mux could replicate any unit, it'd put a few people out of business, and would also make mux far too complex. But adding some modules that allow similar functionality is probably a better way to go.
No doubt mux is already fairly capable in this area but more could be better 
For example, i've yet to discover a single filter or distortion i like as much as my hardware Nova's. It's awkward routing stuff out to it, then sampling that for use in mulab. I could buy the vst suite novation released, and would do, except for one seriously annoying thing, at least for me, i don't want to install it. By that i mean it should just be the dll's placed wherever you want, which in my case is on my USB 3 128GB flash drive. I can't do that so i won't buy it. Therefore i need alternatives. Something similar would be good. Hence my post. This isn't just for my own benefit though as can be seen above, others are interested in the possibilities.
Some of mux's FX need expanding, broadening, to enable far more variation in the end result. As you mentioned before, distortion, chorus and lofi have limitations in the variants available. I'd like this broadened.
Although i titled this topic Emulation, i was not expecting replication, more a simulation. Specifically, i was interested in FX and the way the parameters of such affect the sound as they're adjusted. Just like those Korg samples i sent you, which seems to be what you're doing here.
If mux could replicate any unit, it'd put a few people out of business, and would also make mux far too complex. But adding some modules that allow similar functionality is probably a better way to go.
No doubt mux is already fairly capable in this area but more could be better
For example, i've yet to discover a single filter or distortion i like as much as my hardware Nova's. It's awkward routing stuff out to it, then sampling that for use in mulab. I could buy the vst suite novation released, and would do, except for one seriously annoying thing, at least for me, i don't want to install it. By that i mean it should just be the dll's placed wherever you want, which in my case is on my USB 3 128GB flash drive. I can't do that so i won't buy it. Therefore i need alternatives. Something similar would be good. Hence my post. This isn't just for my own benefit though as can be seen above, others are interested in the possibilities.
Some of mux's FX need expanding, broadening, to enable far more variation in the end result. As you mentioned before, distortion, chorus and lofi have limitations in the variants available. I'd like this broadened.
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- KVRAF
- 4818 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
Thank you for sharing the lab notes from your experiment Andreas! That is what I like most about mux-- imagining a sound & then creating it.
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- KVRian
- 852 posts since 3 Mar, 2009
Scott,
there is an attachment which contains, apart from the older Decimator and Distroyer (slightly revised), something i call Distortion Designer.
It looks like this and has a lot of interrelated controls:
You can set the amount of 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion and further shape them by a low cut filter, 2 bell shape EQs and a high cut filter.
You can set the general amount of distortion and the overall output level.
If distortion is not enough, crank the InGain up to boost the signal going into the distortion network by another 12dB.
If that is not enough, add the before mentioned devices before this one.
This will most likely not sound like what you as seeking for, but one has to do something on long spring evenings
I get some usable tones out of it with a guitar.
Enjoy
there is an attachment which contains, apart from the older Decimator and Distroyer (slightly revised), something i call Distortion Designer.
It looks like this and has a lot of interrelated controls:
You can set the amount of 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion and further shape them by a low cut filter, 2 bell shape EQs and a high cut filter.
You can set the general amount of distortion and the overall output level.
If distortion is not enough, crank the InGain up to boost the signal going into the distortion network by another 12dB.
If that is not enough, add the before mentioned devices before this one.
This will most likely not sound like what you as seeking for, but one has to do something on long spring evenings
I get some usable tones out of it with a guitar.
Enjoy
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2693 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
Andreas, i cannot thank you enough for your generosity and kindness. I will try it as soon as i get the chance. Jo has a great ally in his arsenal, i'm sure he appreciates that as much as the rest of us.
Btw, nice layout
Btw, nice layout
