Login / Register 0 items | $0.00 New @ KVR
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:52 am Automation signal from a vst plugin

Hi !

I'm trying to use automation signal that is outputed from a vst plugin : Blue Cat's Freqanalyst in Mux modular.

The plugin has an event output but no automation signal is outputing. It works correctly in cubase, though. So it means that I set up the plugin correctly.
I could record the automation curves in cubase but I'd like to use it in real time.

But maybe Mux modular is not able to catch automation signals coming from a inserted vst ?

Or maybe, I'm doing something wrong. I'm expecting to get the automation signal coming out from the vst's event output. Anyway, there is no other output than event & audio !

Please, if someone knows if Mux modular can get back automation signal generated by a vst plugin... Many thanks !
Musica ! here
User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
 
6166 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:40 pm Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

Have you plugged an Event Monitor into the Event Output of the VST to see what it's doing?
bibz1st
KVRAF
 
1512 posts since 29 Mar, 2013

Postby bibz1st; Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:15 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

I installed it yesterday to test and it doesn't appear to output any Events. Its an analysis program isnt it, so lm not sure what events should be coming out anyway.
Edit: aha I've just looked at the website again and the free version doesn't pass anything out but the pro version does so are you using the free or pro version ?
Beauty is only skin deep,
Ugliness, however, goes right the way through
User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
 
6166 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:10 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

And, if it works in Cubase but not MuLab, are you sure you're using the Pro version in MuLab and haven't git it mixed up?
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:18 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

pljones wrote:Have you plugged an Event Monitor into the Event Output of the VST to see what it's doing?

Yes I did and if I set the vst plugin to output automation --> nada, niente, nothing, nichts, rien, τίποτα, walou, peau d'zob, etc.
Musica ! here
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:36 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

bibz1st wrote:I installed it yesterday to test and it doesn't appear to output any Events. Its an analysis program isnt it, so lm not sure what events should be coming out anyway.
Edit: aha I've just looked at the website again and the free version doesn't pass anything out but the pro version does so are you using the free or pro version ?

Yes ! Only the pro version outputs signals.

The signal that should go out is automation signal. Exactly the same as when you turn "write automation" in your daw, start playing and move a parameter knob of the vst you are writing its automation.

I don't know if it's possible to write automation in Mux modular. I guess it's possible in Mulab since it's a daw but in Mux modular, maybe it's not provided.
It would be a pity because if it's not, real time is going to become late time.. :D

Anyway, if I find the way to get this automation signal, I have no idea how to convert it in modulation signal, then audio signal in Mux !
So, it's not yet fully functionnal... :wink:
Musica ! here
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:18 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

pljones wrote:And, if it works in Cubase but not MuLab, are you sure you're using the Pro version in MuLab and haven't git it mixed up?

Oh ! No ! I'm not trying to get the automation signal in Mulab ! It's in Mux modular vst plugin !
I'm pretty sure that in Mulab it works perfectly.
Musica ! here
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:30 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

In fact, the Bluecat's freqanalyist can output also midi cc signal. But with midi, the resolution drops to only 127 points and the timing is far from being as precise as audio signals !

When I need time accurate midi signals, I use my Usamo box, if I don't have any other choice such as convert modulation signal into audio signal in Mux modular, then output it through my asio. In this way, I get a very accurate real time signal and in my Scope platform, some devices have an audio input dedicated to modulation source, like the amazing modular synth.

That's why I'd like to convert the Bluecat's freqanalyist signal into audio : geting back that signal in my Scope platform to control things. I could get the real time signal of the main frequency of a track and modulate some effect, oscillator, filter or anything in Scope.

For the moment I can do it but only through midi cc and it's not the most satisfying way.
Musica ! here
User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
 
6166 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:55 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

MUX and MuLab use their own VST databases, of course -- MUX doesn't use the Host's VST settings, so the same applies: are you sure you've pointed it at the Pro version?

MUX also has an audio to modulation module, if you want to try playing with that... (Probably want a few filters and stuff to replicate the FreqAnalyst processing :) )
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:55 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

Yes ! For sure it's the pro version ! I paid for it and in the settings, I have all the midi or automation output management.

I simply tried with another vst ==> I loaded one on the modular area, added an event monitor wired to its event output, moved some knobs and nothing goes out. Have a try.

There is maybe somewhere an option to check, something like "write automation", allowing vst's to output automation signals in Mux modular ?

Of course, it's more current to use automation input, with vst's in Mux modular but to have also the output would be nice !
Musica ! here
User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
 
6166 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:09 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

I've no VSTs that emit MIDI to try it with, unfortunately.

Actually, I can make one in MUX VST...

-- EDIT (just in case anyone finds this useful -- this is after reading JoPo's later post) --
Reaper-MUXVST-MIDI-Out.rpp
Image

That's an audio track in Track 1, sending to Track 2, with the analysis MUX, outputting events to its MIDI out, with Track 2 sending to Track 3 that just hosts a MUX event monitor to show the MIDI out working.

--- OLD --
XX http://peter.drealm.info/img/VST-MIDI-Out.png XX
What you see there is:

An audio track targeting Rack 2.

In the project modular area, I have rerouted Rack 2 to a MuLab-internal modular area just to keep things tidy - you can skip that if you're not using MuLab. All it's doing is holding MUX VST and the event monitor outside MUX VST showing the events are leaving the VST.

The MUX VST modular area just contains a trivial audio -> modulation -> event conversion, passing through any event input (there isn't any) and merging the created events into that stream.

So MUX happily outputs events created within it. I could nest another instance of MUX VST within the MUX VST in MuLab...
Last edited by pljones on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:11 pm Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

Euh... Wait...Wait... :ud:

I hope I undertand correctly what you're doing...
You loaded a Mix modular vst and notice that it's able to convert audio signal into event signal ? :?

Because I know Mux can do that. I'm not sure I understand. But I don't see any VST plugin in the modular area.
I believe I was not very clear enough. What I'm trying to achieve is loading a vst plugin in the modular area and geting back its automation signal via its event output. Just like when you move a vst plugin knob when 'write automation' is switched on in your daw in order to record the automation movments.

Not the vst plugin midi output, its automation data, signal. The Bluecat's freqanalyist outputs either midi cc or automation. And I'd like to use its automation output.

You should try with any vst plugin that is automationnable.

If what I'm trying to do would work, it would be possible to control a vst plugin parameter with an another one's knob/fader.
Forget the last sentence... It maybe adds even more confusion... :D
Musica ! here
User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
 
6166 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:59 pm Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

JoPo wrote:What I'm trying to achieve is loading a vst plugin in the modular area and geting back its automation signal via its event output.

I wasn't aware Automation could be an output in the VST 2.4 protocol, so I don't think you'll be able to achieve that. VST 2.4 only has audio and MIDI outputs, so the VST you're using can't expose automation data to MUX, so MUX can't use it. If the VST outputs MIDI events, that's what you'll have to use.
User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
 
6166 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:09 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

OK, so I may have an idea. If you can route automation in your host (you'll need to ask on your host support forum for help with that), then you can get the automation into MUX VST and then convert to high res events in MUX. In my example, I'm not generating the automation on the fly, it's track automation.
Reaper-MUXVST-AutomatedMIDI
Image

The automation from outside targets a Meta-Parameter 1, which is has been mapped to the Value parameter of an MIDI Controller Generator. That's then just fed to the MUX VST MIDI Out.

There's an event monitor inside that MUX VST, which shows high res events.

The track then sends to a second track where another MUX VST shows incoming events are back to normal MIDI resolution.
User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
 
115 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby JoPo; Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:16 am Re: Automation signal from a vst plugin

pljones wrote:I wasn't aware Automation could be an output in the VST 2.4 protocol, so I don't think you'll be able to achieve that. VST 2.4 only has audio and MIDI outputs, so the VST you're using can't expose automation data to MUX, so MUX can't use it. If the VST outputs MIDI events, that's what you'll have to use.


Don't know if it's correct to call it output but when you write automation, the data goes out from the plugin and are recorded on a automation track. It means that the automation signal is outputed, no ?
Musica ! here
Next

Moderators: mutools, muzycian

Return to MUTOOLS