Space360 - Support Thread

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OK, thanks! Like I said I haven't spent a lot of time with it yet,so I'll try what you suggested. I'm using Sonar X2...FWIW.

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Just dropping in to say I really like your plugin.

Not so much for long halls (although I did get some decent results), but as a smaller room sim it's just great. The binaural stuff takes it to another level, I wish all reverbs had this kind of functionality. Thanks a lot!

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i also find this plugin useful for certain tasks. however, maybe it's just me, but if i pull up the room scale, there's a terrible slow pitch modulation going on, most obstrusive. is that me doing something wrong or something?
and the biggest gripe i have with it, i wasn't able to create a room, where the responding of the room is quite instant. there's always quite a long buildup, which sounds like an unwanted predelay. i know, reflections always have to build up befor decaying (can't beat physics), but in a small room that happens almost instantly. i was never able to create the instant buildup on a small room/closet, which makes this plugin always sound kinda unnatural, imo...

any ideas? what am i doing wrong?
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

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Hey Brok. Thanks for checking out my entry!
brok landers wrote:...but if i pull up the room scale, there's a terrible slow pitch modulation going on, most obstrusive. is that me doing something wrong or something?
Yes, there is quite a lot of modulation going on to the late reflections. I was going to cut down the range a bit, but I kinda like the ability to have that "wash" in certain situations (sounds good on a electric piano patch IMO). But there are ways to tame it! If you click on the word "ambience" under its knob at the top, it opens up the late reflection edit screen. The top slider (labeled "smear") adjusts the amount (depth) of the modulation. You can get real "boxy" sounds by pulling it all the way down or "underwater" sounds by pushing it all the way up. Play around with that and see if you can get something usable.
brok landers wrote:and the biggest gripe i have with it, i wasn't able to create a room, where the responding of the room is quite instant. there's always quite a long buildup, which sounds like an unwanted predelay.
Yeah, unfortunately there's no easy way to overcome this. The buildup time of the late reflections is hard-calculated according to the size of the room, the lengths of the early reflection rays, etc. It should come up naturally right after the last of the early reflections, but I understand that the exact timing might not always sound good in all situations.

There are a few things I can suggest to improve the response: first, understand that even though the mixer allows for level adjustment for each section of the effect, the three sections are really meant to be used together. So for example, if you pull down the "reflect" knob all the way, there will be a noticeable "gap" between the initial rays and the late reflections. So, one way to improve the build up response is to use set the early reflections as though they were part of the tail. If you click the "reflect" label under the top middle knob, it opens up the edit panel. Here, you can adjust the damping of the "walls". Try different settings here (pull down for really "bright" rooms, up for "darker" rooms). Maybe you can dial in a more appropriate sound (mask the slower build up of the late refs) by messing with these.

One of the biggest challenges I had when making this plugin was determining that fine line between usability and features - do I make it so the user can adjust every little detail of the sound or do I "dumb it down" so the user can just go in and move a few controls to get something usable? I chose more the "dumb it down" approach. Personally, I get frustrated having to deal with 100 different settings just to get to a decent sound (I have a very short attention span!). If I continue with future version of this thing (which I probably will), I plan on offering more control over the very things that you mention. I'll admit to being very out-of-touch with what the average user wants these days (I can count on one hand the number of times I visited KVR prior to this challenge!). But thanks to everyone's input so far, I'm getting so many great ideas for future versions of this thing!

Thanks!

-Brad

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cytoSonic wrote:

One of the biggest challenges I had when making this plugin was determining that fine line between usability and features - do I make it so the user can adjust every little detail of the sound or do I "dumb it down" so the user can just go in and move a few controls to get something usable? ...

-Brad
I am fond of your GUI here: Very intuitive and fast! It seems to me that there's a lot of work and pondering behind it ... great! I will check your plugin next time. Thank you, Brad!
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de

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Yes, very nice GUI indeed.
(and great plugin !)
Do you have any preset for it ?

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I also like the GUI, the only suggestion I would have is to make the direct/reflect/ambience page switches look a little more tab-like. They just look like labels at the moment, and ignorants like myself who often launch in (at least initially) without reading the manual are quite likely not to realise this.

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sinkmusic wrote:Yes, very nice GUI indeed.
(and great plugin !)
Do you have any preset for it ?
Thanks! I do not have any "official" presets for it, yet. But if you go to the plugin's page here at KVR, jeff51 has uploaded a few presets that should work in Cubase. I don't have Cubase on my machine so I can't comment on them, but they should be enough to get you going. As I said in an earlier post, my preset implementation was a little short-sighted. Sure, the settings will save with your project file and you can even save presets in their own file directly from the GUI (click the "save" label), but you can only save one patch at a time (not multiple patches in a program). This will be remedied in future versions.
robenestobenz wrote:I also like the GUI, the only suggestion I would have is to make the direct/reflect/ambience page switches look a little more tab-like. They just look like labels at the moment, and ignorants like myself who often launch in (at least initially) without reading the manual are quite likely not to realise this.
I know. I wanted to make the switches a little more obvious, but I just ran out of time when the contest was closing. Though, I will mention to everyone (like me) who hates having to read manuals, I deliberately made the manual easy to digest. It's only ONE page! So don't be afraid to look at it (it's included in the .zip download.

Thanks again, everyone!

-Brad

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Hi
Now that the DC is over, do you have any plan to update your plugin at some point ?
Space360 is great :D

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I wish you had won... You were my top contender. I really like this plugin a lot. Here are a few comments if you still plan to work on it.
Compyfox wrote:...I'd actually also prefer a plain and simple mono source which is then recorded by a binaural head, or an array of different mics (single mic, A/B, X/Y, M/S, multi-mic array, etc).
+1 for this. It seems more natural this way to me, for acoustic instruments anyway as these are single-point sound sources. Then you can clearly position several of them where you want in the room to create a whole that sounds natural. So far that's what I've been doing with it, placing the two speakers almost on top of each other. It would be nice to have the option of a single input to make life easier... Then the settings can be saved and transfered to another instance for another instrument that we just move around without touching the room settings.

Or for hosts that allow handling this, you could let us set an arbitrary number of inputs per plugin instance which could correspond to the number of single-point sound sources that we want (whether they'd be instruments or speaker configurations).

This plugin actually reminds me of Voxengo's Impulse Modeler, but much more user friendly! Something that would be nice to have for each sound source is an 'cone of emission' (check Impulse Modeler's online manual). But maybe that's already more than what you're willing to do...

I really hope you will continue working on it. But it's already great, thanks!

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sinkmusic wrote:Now that the DC is over, do you have any plan to update your plugin at some point ?
Yes, I do!

I'm in the middle of another somewhat involved project right now, but once that's at a good stopping point, I plan to look over all of the suggestions here and see what kind of updates I should make. So far, the short list is...

1. multiple inputs (this seems to be the most requested)
2. interpolation in the early reflection delay reads to allow "movement" during playback (without the digital artifacts).
3. more "tweak-able" controls in the "ambience" section.
4. tabs (or something) on the GUI so people know how to open the edit windows. :oops:

I'm sure I'll think of more improvements when I sit down at this again.
InfiNeat wrote:I wish you had won... You were my top contender. I really like this plugin a lot. Here are a few comments if you still plan to work on it.
[...]
Or for hosts that allow handling this, you could let us set an arbitrary number of inputs per plugin instance which could correspond to the number of single-point sound sources that we want (whether they'd be instruments or speaker configurations).
Thanks! :)

I, too, think this is the best way to handle the inputs. That way they can be mono, stereo, multi-mic'ed, etc. My original idea was to have this as more of a "bus" reverb that glued several tracks together. I'll need to download a bunch of DAW demos to see the practicality/compatibility of this approach. Unfortunately, I live in a bubble and am not too hip to what all the different hosts are capable of. But this is ideally how the multiple input feature would be implemented.

While I'm on here, it occurred to me that I never popped on after voting closed to thank everyone for their interest in this project. I wasn't expecting much when I entered the contest. I am really proud to have finished in the top 10 and I wanted to thank everyone for their support. :)

Thanks!

-Brad

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