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Compyfox
KVRAF
 
14159 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:20 pm Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

The following might be a bit late at this point, but I've been asked to start a separate thread.

I've voiced my opinion a couple of times about this year's challenge already, but to sum things up:


I personally think that:

1) Popular and successful music magazines joining and having a chance to win the big prize, is IMO a slap in the face (see: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/trickster-by-beat ). Nothing to say against free promotion, but what if they win? What happens with the prize distribution? Do they really(!) need to go to NAMM if they do have a reporter team covering that already?!

(SUBNOTE: Personal Opinion, not a rule violation)



2) the release of Wavesfactory's SnareBuzz is questionable, as the concept was once released as "Kontakt Sample Set" (which was part of their freebies back in the days, they're removed from their page now). The developer however said that this is a "plugin and not like the old sample concept"

(SUBNOTE: Personal Opinion, not a rule violation)



3) Developer AutoTonic did violate the rules and should technically be disqualified - as the plugin was already released in July 2016 as "full version" (at this point, documented to be 4 years in the making - released about 2 months prior to DC'16), and the "Player" is a run-down version of it. Quote of the rule set:
Your entry must be an original creation made by you (your team / crew / company / family). Of course you may reuse code / modules / development frameworks, but the actual plug-in / application / sound library should be a new, original creation, not just an obviously cut-down subset of a program you have already written




Especially point 3 is a slap in the face to other developers, who worked just as hard on their tools and sound-sets, but created something "new". So this year's challenge definitely leaves a bad taste in the mouth.



Which brings me to the Prize Distribution. And I've seen this already happen with previous Developer Challenges - the balance it isn't fair IMO.

Okay, you might argue that "soundsets" just don't make as much work as programming plugins (though we have to admit, that a lot of previous Developer Challenge creations NEVER saw an update post the challenges, due to reasons unknown). But only distributing "10%" of the whole winning pool for sound sets, is neither fair IMO, nor encouraging development/creativity in that area. Same goes for iOS and Android devices - which do have more and more importance these days. Linux is on a whole different ballpark, and "standalone" tools (Executables) as well (they technically count to "other" and not "Windows/Mac Plugins"). But in fact, we did have iOS and now also Android tools in previous challenges. Yet they didn't even see any positive encouragement during or even after the challenge. So why should developers waste their time and join the challenge?!


I think certain things need to change. Maybe too late for now (at least the prize distribution, not the disqualification of an entry), but definitely for future challenges.



I hope that this post kicks off an calm/collective and objective discussion.

What is your opinion on the rule set?
Is the "possible disqualification of participants" adjusted?
What can we do to improve the current and further challenges?


Please discuss
Last edited by Compyfox on Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
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xoxos
Mr Entertainment
 
12013 posts since 29 Apr, 2002, from i might peeramid

Postby xoxos; Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:54 pm Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

there are so many terrible things in the world, and you are applying your energy to this?
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha xoxos.net free vst. neither a follower nor a leader be
tagore "where roads are made i lose my way"
where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
14159 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:06 pm Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

I was asked to "outsource" this thread. I hope the people that "back me" on this also join this thread, and speak their mind. I do try to keep this as objective and fair as possible.


But one question comes to mind:
Are you, as participant and former winner of the Developer Challenge, fine with the rule violation and prize distribution?

Please try to not go super-philosophical, like you usually tend to go. If you feel like contributing that is...
Last edited by Compyfox on Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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elassi
KVRAF
 
1794 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Postby elassi; Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:19 pm Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

Please discuss

Let the people decide. Your points help(ed) to make a decision.
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Aloysius
KVRAF
 
20881 posts since 11 Aug, 2008, from a computer

Postby Aloysius; Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:42 pm Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

2) the release of Wavesfactory's SnareBuzz is questionable, as the concept was once released as "Kontakt Sample Set" (which was part of their freebies back in the days, they're removed from their page now). The developer however said that this is a "plugin and not like the old sample concept"

(a) Are you sure about that? I bought their W-Buzz for Kontakt. It was priced at €9.95 EUR back in 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh1vh2arESs
liqih
DASH Guy
 
7276 posts since 19 Sep, 2001

Postby liqih; Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:55 pm Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

I will not say that I agree or disagree with the rules of the KVRDC16, since I partecipate I stick to them.

But I think you did good starting this thread Compyfox.


xoxos wrote:there are so many terrible things in the world, and you are applying your energy to this?


rurik, it's the context that counts. And you know that. You and I makes synths applying a lot of energy.
http://nusofting.liqihsynth.com
NUSofting & Dash Signature
Ivan_C
KVRian
 
1022 posts since 11 Aug, 2004, from Marcoussis, France

Postby Ivan_C; Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:02 pm Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

2) the release of Wavesfactory's SnareBuzz is questionable, as the concept was once released as "Kontakt Sample Set" (which was part of their freebies back in the days, they're removed from their page now). The developer however said that this is a "plugin and not like the old sample concept"

No, it is not questionable, since there is absolutely no violation of the rules.

Your entry must be an original creation made by you (your team / crew / company / family). Of course you may reuse code / modules / development frameworks, but the actual plug-in / application / sound library should be a new, original creation, not just an obviously cut-down subset of a program you have already written.

Snare Buzz might be based on the same concept than W-Buzz, but one is a Kontakt library, and the other one is a plug-in doing modeling, with tons of new options, it's basically an improvement of the original concept. I can understand that some people are pissed about the diseappearance of the original Kontakt library, or the fact that it wasn't free and that Snare Buzz is. But this has absolutely nothing to do with "a violation of rules". Otherwise, Ignite Amps should have been disqualified last time because they already did guitar amp simulations, same for AXP now and before, same for VoS who did already an exciter etc. That would be very stupid.
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Taron
KVRAF
 
2041 posts since 17 Apr, 2010, from Croatia

Postby Taron; Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:35 pm Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

AH, perfect! Thanks for making the thread, Compy! :tu:
Of course, this is very late in the game, but better late than never and I could imagine this may remain a topic beyond the voting deadline and might prompt some more scrutiny of entries by DC17. :borg:

Naturally, it's kind of sad, if some developers, who appear to be around for years already, have to resort to such maneuvers. I cannot really imagine that they'll do themselves any favors. But we're gathered here to vote...ehm...not to judge? :scared: :|

There are rules here that are fairly well formulated: Make something new to show off your fresh development powers!
...and you may get people interested in what else you do with more time.

Just imagine a racing event, where some people run on their bare feet and others come with an old car?! :shrug:
Those rules are not their to hurt anybody, but to define what the contest is all about. If you do not meet that definition, you simply are not competing. Even those, running on their naked feet, are being mildly opportunistic, but this blatant opportunism of those, who ignore the rules, hoping to pull themselves out of what ever swamp they're in, is just painful to watch and should not be enabled.

I'm still very happy about the DC, no matter what, and I hope those violators don't discourage some of the geniuses out there, waiting to get started for the next round! KVR has a fantastic thing going here and it deserves to be well groomed. :)
.jon
KVRAF
 
5382 posts since 8 Jul, 2002, from Helsinki

Postby .jon; Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:53 am Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

3) is a rule violation as far as I can tell

Others I don't support, publishing a paper magazine does not exclude anyone from participating.
wehkah
KVRist
 
77 posts since 8 Oct, 2007

Postby wehkah; Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:18 am Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

The biggest thing is the lack of quality plugins, too much halfbaken programming course examples are in the challenge this year. A few cool ideas but no real invention. Just my point.
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Taron
KVRAF
 
2041 posts since 17 Apr, 2010, from Croatia

Postby Taron; Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:35 am Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

That's a bit harsh, wehkah! And a wee bit off topic...but still, very harsh. :(
...I figured, both Luigi (Noisetar) and me (Lord of the Springs) really brought something rather fresh to the plate. Of course, I'd have to take the hit on the coding front, because it is only my first ever vst release and my second attempt at coding one, all within a rather short period of time and could spend a few more weeks on the stove, but... hmmm... dang. :| Not exactly motivating what you're writing.
wehkah
KVRist
 
77 posts since 8 Oct, 2007

Postby wehkah; Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:47 am Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

Hej Taron, dont take it personal, your physical modelling thingy isnt that bad. ;) Your right, it's offtopic here, my mistake. Maybe it can be moved to the KVR Dev Challenge 2016! thread.
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Taron
KVRAF
 
2041 posts since 17 Apr, 2010, from Croatia

Postby Taron; Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:53 am Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

Thanks, I guess, I squeezed just in time, haha! ;)
Well...if only I was a moderator. :shrug:
DSmolken
KVRian
 
1211 posts since 20 Sep, 2013, from Poland

Postby DSmolken; Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:12 am Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

Compyfox wrote:What can we do to improve the current and further challenges?

Send somebody to NAMM who's going to make a big impression, draw a big crowd, get people talking, and make NAMM want to sponsor this next year, too.
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Taron
KVRAF
 
2041 posts since 17 Apr, 2010, from Croatia

Postby Taron; Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:44 am Re: Developer Challenge 2016 Rules - Violations and Prize Distribution criticism

Great call, DS! Makes me wonder, if KVR has anyone at NAMM. It really seems like it's the major forum of its kind, but then I don't know much about this scene... just feels that way. Or is KVR at NAMM anyway all along?
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