License protection

[Ruben(LD)]

Hi everyone,


We've stumbled upon some discussions here at LennarDigital and we really would like some input from you guys.

There are many ways to protect our hard work fom beeing ripped by hackgroups, but we don't want to seal off the product completely or only make it useable for just 1 computer.

Sylenth1 seems to be one of the most ripped vst plugins and to be honest it's one of the reasons the 64-bit version has been delayed for so long.

If you have any other ideas we would be very thankful!


The LennarDigital team

[lostnthesound]

What about a cloud based license system similar to Waves and the newer SoundToys plugins?

[tuzemec]

Or just get some know-how from u-he?

I remember a statement that there's not a single crack for the newer versions of the u-he plugins.
Also there were a statement that they are willing the share the protection methods. I'm sure the thread is somewhere in the instruments section...

[chk071]

Or just get some know-how from u-he?

I remember a statement that there's not a single crack for the newer versions of the u-he plugins.

How would they know? Do the plugins phone home?

[tuzemec]

Or just get some know-how from u-he?

I remember a statement that there's not a single crack for the newer versions of the u-he plugins.

How would they know? Do the plugins phone home?

Here's the topic: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7#p5639387
There were some interesting statements from urs.

[chk071]

Oh, yeah, i remember that actually. Didn't quite get how it was working when he described it. But why not? If it's a good, working, hassle free and easy to implement protection, it should be fine.

[Mace404]

The way u-he handles copy protection really is non intrusive.
I voted 'something else' for that reason. The way it works now is also fine but I guess you want to change that (why this poll otherwise)
Like said above, Urs offers help/insight into their proctection methods.

[sqigls]

just don't make the user suffer for it.
If it's gonna be cracked anyway, and meanwhile the dude who paid $200 for it is needing to jump through hoops in order to use their gear, then it is surely going to generate animosity and a general lack of customers…
Zebra will be the LAST plugin I ever get rid of, that is for damn sure. It sounds great, but also U-he is the king of companies, forward thinking, great support, and doesn't make the paid user suffer. Just put some melting GUIs in there. I think that's the main reason Zebra isn't quite as 'popular' as Sylenth1. Wannabe wubstep & tarnce kids get faced with a black GUI and just give up & go to the next plugin. It's hilarious, and I don't need to plug in a dongle to use the flipping thing. Bonus.

[Teksonik]

Please no iLok as I won't install it ever. The way it works now is fine but if the Windows 64 bit version is locked to only one computer I could live with that as well since I only have one 64 bit computer (at the moment).....

[HydrogenHuman]

Hello Ruben,

For a fair amount of time, I suspected that the reason why Sylenth1 appeared "abandoned" was due to how much it was pirated, and it appears my assumption was correct.

The first thing I would do before creating a new copy protection, is first make a strong effort to stay in touch with your loyal customers who have been curious about Sylenth1's future development.

Many developers on KVR who have become very successful with their products (U-he, Synapse Audio, Cytomic, etc) became successful through their continuous communication with the users of their product.

When a developer shows they have commitment to its users, and are willing to listen to feedback, give updates on a product's progress, etc. it gives current users, and potentially new users, confidence that their expenditure on a product will not be wasted.

This confidence building, in my opinion, minimizes pirating, and can even turn a pirate into a legitimate purchase. Integrating a new form of copy protection will only hinder confidence in the product, and in turn, will hinder confidence in the developer.

This is the first time many of us have even heard from someone at Lennar Digital in months, and I will admit even I believed Sylenth1 was all but abandoned.

I want to see Sylenth1, and you guys at Lennar Digital succeed with your legendary soft synth.

I know it isn't completely relevant to what you had originally asked, but based on my experience with so many developers, I've always remembered the ones that are active with their community.

Okay, having said all of that, I chose "Something Else" because I feel u-he has one of the better methods of protecting against piracy, so I will second asking them about their copy protection.

[Ruben(LD)]

Wow!

Thanks for all replies, I'm happy to see Sylenth1 is still so vivid

We just might contact Urs about their ways of protecting software...we want to state that it's really unmotivating to see so many google hits on downloading Sylenth1, or torrent files that have been downloaded thousands of times each...and that has indeed been a reason for slowing down the programming of the 64 bit.
We all know we might be too late for many users, but we're in a hurry to comply to all customers who did buy Sylenth1 in the last few years.

We also like to state that the 64 bit update will be free to all licenced users, even though programming it is like creating a whole different program.

[sqigls]

Awesome!
I'm not a Sylenth1 user, but I soon will be, (especially knowing the update to 64 bit will be free).
I'm not sure why it has taken me so long to try this synth?… Very CPU efficient!
I personally know many producers who use it, and I know that most of them use a cracked version. Some of them became famous by doing so, and it pains me to see their level of commitment to their devs. Especially as I see them continue to use cracked copies after their rise to fame. I generally lose all respect for these artists. I can understand it must be a head-fuk for Lennard.

If it were protected by eLicenser or iLok i'm sure people would still buy it, but I know many would be turned off by this move. I personally favour a serial number, with the creative time-bomb idea, so long as it wouldn't accidentally curse paid users mid live set or something. But i would personally gain major satisfaction to see all the unauthorised using producer's faces if Sylenth1 bombed out on them.

I think it's amazing that Sylenth1 is possibly the most widespread cracked software plugin, but it still holds its value in the KVR marketplace. Because there's never a 50% off sale i guess?

1 side note... I have been holding off buying Sylenth1 from the Lennar Digital site as I have been skeptical at the support. Most of my other softwares are supported by their devs who frequent KVR or at least answer emails quickly. Again, I know Lennard might be busy, but I'm just saying that this has been affecting my (as of yet) non-purchase decision. Also, I have migrated to 64bit and am tired of using bit bridges (might not be such an issue though?)… I'm sure many folk will be happy you're on board now Ruben, good luck and stay cool!

[Skyre]

I absolutely agree with supplying continuous support. Dead targets make easy targets.

Serials and time bombs are what I'd vote for all day long. Dongles and single-computer licenses are quite hideous. Many producers, myself included, have at least one secondary laptop with a DAW for traveling with. That is something that shouldn't be overlooked. =]

[EvilDragon]

Definitely ask Urs and go with his thing. Dongles are a no go.

[Sequent]

+1 to maybe seeing what Urs is doing.

If you absolutely felt that it was necessary and as a last resort I would be okay with a dongle however, that would mean that I could only use it on one computer at a time (unless you did something like what UVI is doing). I would choose iLok over eLicensor because the latter seems to be rather flimsily made. The iLok (especially iLok2) seems to be a lot more solid!

But I voted Something else... mainly because of the Urs question. The way it works was fine for me isn't really a good answer, imo, because it obviously doesn't work for LD.

Ideally, whatever you guys come up with needs to work for both parties. Meaning, the user as well as LennarDigital. Protecting your work and intellectual assets while at the same time not alienating your legitimate users.

Thank you for hanging in there and not just dropping the whole project altogether... like some other small developers have done/been forced to do. Sylenth is a great synth and it would be a shame for it not to be developed further!