Can I please sell the sound banks I don't use?

[BBFG#]

Really would like to keep the synth, but there are ten banks of sounds I never use and bloat it for me. Can I please sell these ten banks and remove them from my account?

[BlackWinny]

There is absolutely no explicit license contract in the zip files nor accompanying them. So juridically yes, nothing forbid you to sell them.

[BBFG#]

Just waiting for a reply from KV331 to verify.

[BlackWinny]

Just waiting for a reply from KV331 to verify.

Yes, it is the better way.

In the PM I wrote you two minutes ago, I wrote:

In the folder where your Synthmaster is installed, you have a file "SynthMasterLicenceAgreement.pdf".

The point 2.10 says:

2.10. You may resell your license of the Software to another 3rd party under the following conditions:
• You pay a license transfer fee in the amount of $15 to KV331 Audio.
• You inform KV331 Audio via email about your intention to transfer the license in a reasonable period of
time before the transfer is to happen (2 days is sufficient).
• You dont give away your serial number to the new licensee.
• You remove/uninstall the “SynthMaster software” from the computers that it was installed on.

So, in absolute, you can resell... assuming that you inform them.

Now, concerning the banks, the point

• You pay a license transfer fee in the amount of $15 to KV331 Audio.

can't apply to the banks... since $15 is the price of each bank. Therefore this point applies only on the synth itself. So the only thing which is imposed concerning the banks is simply to inform them.

Perfectly logical, isn't it?


Now, if you want to have confirmation (why? All is said in this point 2.10) you can ask them here:
http://www.kv331audio.com/contactus.aspx

Nota: In the choice field concerning the category of the contact form, you see also that the NFR licenses concern exclusively the versions for shools and instructors.

So, there's no problem. The only obligation is to inform them when you resell a bank. The $15 fee would be insane for a bank. Imagine... you would want to resell 10 banks you'd have to pay $150 of fee? Illogical! And in addition this point 2.10 precise "the Software"! A bank is not a part of the software. They are sold apart.

[BBFG#]

Just waiting for a reply from KV331 to verify.

Yes, it is the better way.

In the PM I wrote you two minutes ago, I wrote:

In the folder where your Synthmaster is installed, you have a file "SynthMasterLicenceAgreement.pdf".

The point 2.10 says:

2.10. You may resell your license of the Software to another 3rd party under the following conditions:
• You pay a license transfer fee in the amount of $15 to KV331 Audio.
• You inform KV331 Audio via email about your intention to transfer the license in a reasonable period of
time before the transfer is to happen (2 days is sufficient).
• You dont give away your serial number to the new licensee.
• You remove/uninstall the “SynthMaster software” from the computers that it was installed on.

So, in absolute, you can resell... assuming that you inform them.

Now, concerning the banks, the point

• You pay a license transfer fee in the amount of $15 to KV331 Audio.

can't apply to the banks... since $15 is the price of each bank. Therefore this point applies only on the synth itself. So the only thing which is imposed concerning the banks is simply to inform them.

Perfectly logical, isn't it?


Now, if you want to have confirmation (why? All is said in this point 2.10) you can ask them here:
http://www.kv331audio.com/contactus.aspx

Nota: In the choice field concerning the category of the contact form, you see also that the NFR licenses concern exclusively the versions for shools and instructors.

So, there's no problem. The only obligation is to inform them when you resell a bank. The $15 fee would be insane for a bank. Imagine... you would want to resell 10 banks you'd have to pay $150 of fee? Illogical! And in addition this point 2.10 precise "the Software"! A bank is not a part of the software. They are sold apart.

All quite cogent and logical to my way of thinking too. I have contacted them, but I have to say, if I have one gripe about this company, it is when they choose to reply and when they choose to ignore incoming emails. So I posted here also, thinking maybe they might respond here, even though they have done the same thing here at times too. (Which seems to be to simply ignore the comment or thread).

[krepssound]

What you most certainly can do is switch serials with someone with no preset banks.

Probably both pay 15$ transfer fee.

[Contour]

I'm sorry to be a sourpuss but.. in case you're referring to the factory installed banks then

...the stupid part of the story is:

The license agreement refers to reselling the "Software" with capital S meaning 'Software' is a defined term. So check the definition (if there is one) to see if it really includes the banks. If there's no definition or its defined as a whole (engine + banks) then no, you can not separately sell the banks without the engine under the license agreement.

...but the silver lining is:

Practically speaking, of course you'd want to sell the banks you dont use but it may very well be that the license terms strictly speaking do not allow that. What then you ask? I say you just sell them anyway. I dont think KV331 would care for a 15 buck loss (or alternatively a single breach of end user license terms with a 15 dollar damage cap)? If they want to take a stab at you they may terminate your license for breach or some other crap they've stated in their license terms (ASSUMING they'd ever find out about it in the first place).

But honestly, what would they be in for if they did that? Just sell the banks.

silver lining number 2:

If you're selling third party banks or separately purchased banks then you're more likely in for a treat as their resale is more likely to be allowed by their respective license terms. They are not covered under the SM license agreement (unless they're purchased from KV331 and the banks' documentation refers to the SM original license terms)

[BlackWinny]

Hmmm.

1. First: the banks in question here are not the factory banks but the banks bought apart. It is well that, BBFG# ?
2. Second: there is absolutely any license terms concerning these banks. There are terms concerning the software, that's all. And these banks are not parts of the software. In face of a judge, the judge would say : "Where are the terms written concerning the banks bought apart? I don't see any text, so the default rules apply: no licence, so constraint!".
3. Third: there is even not the least text of license terms in the zip files you download, nor in the webpage where you have the description of these banks and the link to buy them, nor even in the final webpage before the checkout.

Conclusion: the total lack of terms of license which are absolutely mandatory when there is a license... means that there is no license for these banks! In a conflict between the company and the customer, a judge would come to this same conclusion!

Simply it is of course better to inform the company of a resell of a bank (and because it would allow the new customer to download a potential future new version of that bank) but that's all.

It is not for the fun that license terms are mandatory. It is because each term has its importance. And there can't be a "default" license stated at the level of a company. It must be at the level of the product itself. The customer must be clearly informed of his rights and his obligations for each product sold independently! And that... software or not! It is the european law, and it has been copied on the previous american law which was already existing. When there is nothing written by a license, the customer is in right to do what he wants. And beware: the terms written in the License must never be in contradiction or above European law! And about the softwares, the European Law is even more permitting for the customer than for any other product, since the European Law forbids to a company to forbid the resale of its software products! All term in contradiction with that in the text of a software licence is illegal! The only case allowed is the case of the NFR, which are softwares sold to collectivities of in special discounts.

[BlackWinny]

Another text important to read:

• EU courts: software license resales legal

[BlackWinny]

And this

Court of Justice of the European Union
PRESS RELEASE No 94/12
Luxembourg, 3 July 2012

[BlackWinny]

And this

Top EU court upholds right to resell downloaded software

[BlackWinny]

And this

EU Court Says, Yes, You Can Resell Your Software, Even If The Software Company Says You Can't

[BlackWinny]

May I continue?

I think it is not necessary anymore now, heh?

[paterpeter]

@BlackWinny: What you quoted only applies to software AFAIK. And a soundset is probably not considered software (as in: executable programm plus required data), but only data. But IANAL. It doesn't even apply to games according to a German court because of the audio visual content: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02 ... eam-games/

@Contour: so you suggest to simply sell the sound banks even if the license terms forbade it just because KV311 won't probably go after it? As in: "(commercial) piracy is OK as long as the individual damage isn't high"? A great attitude that will ensure a long stay here on KVR...

Really guys, just wait what Bülent has to say about it.

[BlackWinny]

This statement of the European Court of Justice has been a bolt in the world of the software companies, because is showed the people that an unnumerable amount of software licences imposed by companies to their customers have sentences which are totally illegal since in total opposition to the european law!