Dance/House melody + melody rhythm

[jancivil]

So learn ANY instrument, the only thing that will surely 300% make you fail in the music world is if you do not physically play and spend all your time in a DAW.

Oh yeah, Skrillex, who spends all his time in a DAW is a miserable failure for sure.

You do know that skrillex was in a band and was a singer right?

Yeah, and he wasn't a great success until he had started programming everything in DAW.

Or are you trying to convince me that being an ex-singer gives you an edge in programming that crazy Skrillex stuff in DAW?

Yes everything helps

Why do people how play instrument say that you need to learn playing something in order to make better music. Because for them it's hard to program a melody as good as the play it.
.

You need to invent theories which would justify your arrogance, and ignorance.

How many masterful instrumentalists have you observed working at the DAW? I don't think you have once. That's an obvious straw man you stuck up here to make a point you can't actually make.

[jancivil]

I make things in the piano roll so far beyond what I can play it's ridiculous. If I want to suss a wild soprano sax solo in the piano roll*, I can. Because I have substantial experience alongside one in real-time. If I make a cello solo work completely convincingly, it owes to my training, the criticism from the coach, and my own work making the thing work in real-time, where NOTHING can be faked... preparing it for the ultra-critical jury.
Now I can 'fake' many, even most things. There's a connection.

You are implying your superior intelligence to the extent you can skip all this. I say you're kidding yourself.
Show proof of concept, post your melodies you 'composed', do.



(*: http://tigressandtheu-fraidees.bandcamp ... k/outliers)

[Loki Fuego]

Now I can 'fake' many, even most things. There's a connection.

You are implying your superior intelligence to the extent you can skip all this. I say you're kidding yourself.
Show proof of concept, post your melodies you 'composed', do.

Try thinking out of the box...

1. I am not trying to 'fake' real instruments. It's waste of time and it's stupid, because it's easier to play the real one or find someone who plays the real one.
2. I can compose something that you wouldn't be able to play and it would sound musical.

In order to satisfy your interest, here's the song I made ten years ago, before I learned playing any instrument at all (everything was done in Jeskola Buzz):
http://soundcloud.com/lokifuego/revolution-n2-anarchy

[Loki Fuego]

As this thread is related to dance/house music, I think it's better to post more relevant example:
http://soundcloud.com/re-vibe/re-vibe-anathem-draft-mix

Listen to the breakdown.

[D.Josef]

I think playing an instrument gives a great edge. I'm a software engineer in my day job, and so I am very familiar with how coding feels. Putting something together in a tracker is coding.
Playing an instrument you know is like talking or thinking. It's natural. It's the polar opposite of coding. It does help you.

I think putting music coders down for not playing an instrument is elitist and sort of stuck-up, but on the other hand, you know, if you can code a piano roll, then you bloody well know how to play a keyboard.
From there, becoming a pianist (not a virtuoso, but a pianist nevertheless) is just a question of practice. (And let's not forget the life bonus. Playing a piece on your grand piano - or even on your JP-8000 - for your girlfriend is way more romantic than sequencing something for her.)

Also, "you can program something you cannot play" is of course silly. Unless we're talking about shit-crazy 11-voice polyphony, you can play anything - just not at the same speed.

[Brouwers]

As this thread is related to dance/house music, I think it's better to post more relevant example:
http://soundcloud.com/re-vibe/re-vibe-anathem-draft-mix

Listen to the breakdown.

Care to explain for what purpose this example is? You mean the rythm of the synth?

[shankfiddle]

On a completely unrelated note:

if you are sick, don't you seek the advice of someone who's studied illness?
if you are in legal trouble, do you not seek out a specialist who has studied the the specific laws pertaining to that situation?
when my bike's gears f**k up, I go to the bike mechanic.
when i have problems in java (my skills are pathetic) i ask a friend who's a programmer

sure, you don't NEED any of these, it just helps and makes the whole process smooth and painless.

but it would be quite ridiculous to seek/accept advice from one who hasn't studied the field in question in DEPTH.

so if you are seeking to be a musician... and someone tells you "just feel it, man, theory isn't important, instruments don't matter either" well you be the judge. that is your job as a reader of an online forum, to sort through ideas and pick for yourself which ones you want to steal. if you learn something, great. if you don't, take a deep breath and go do something else. these aren't personal arguments (although some get confused about that).

Take it or leave it. You can sail the ocean in a rowboat, sure. But there's a submarine factory right over there... "prepare for DIVE in 5...4...3...2..."

[Functional]

Yeah, about past argument, I was about to write an unnecessarily long argument about why doing everything in DAW is no way of failure. I'll make this short instead.

Once you become rich, acting like you're poor is no longer an option. You won't drive a car that can break down at any moment, you won't think twice whenever you should eat what you want or what you afford et cetera.


This is how human mind works. Once you get used to some specific stuff, like composing with a guitar, understanding science through education, getting your car repaired instead of doing it yourself etc, you'll generate a picture about it being the best or even worse, only way of doing it really.

This does not apply to everything in world, but to some specific things and I think composing is one of them.

If the world was to reborn and instead of instruments, we would have only DAW's and synthesizers without keyboard, eventually good music would appear no matter what.


It's really unreasonable to say that doing everything in your DAW is the wrong way. It's a possible way and for some people, I'm sure, it's the better way.

[shankfiddle]

Yeah, about past argument, I was about to write an unnecessarily long argument about why doing everything in DAW is no way of failure. I'll make this short instead.

...

It's really unreasonable to say that doing everything in your DAW is the wrong way. It's a possible way and for some people, I'm sure, it's the better way.

ok fine, but that would be the rowboat. but even IF you want to work in a DAW, learning an instrument and developing things like:
rhythmic precision (no metronome to do it for you)
improvisational skills (no samples)
intonation (no frets or piano roll? oh no!)
coordination and reflexes (practice of an instrument helps your brain develop more than clicking will, absolutely positively)


all of these WILL help you. and if you refuse to even try because it's more comfortable in front of the computer you are just cheating yourself.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but by your questions, I infer that you are a beginner, that's not bad though, you are learning! Asking questions is great!

But you are in no position to comment on whether learning an instrument helps or hinders a composer (or not) UNLESS you first learn an instrument. How the f**k would you know? Sorry, but the reality of it is you won't realize what we're saying unless you take that plunge.

[shankfiddle]

and to add to that: It is just as necessary for instrumentalists to get comfortable using a DAW. I'm not saying no one should use technology, cause shit that's all instruments are.

Brian Eno- "The Studio as a Compositional Tool", a piece of literature that has brought about powerful changes in the way we compose think about and listen to music. it shaped the entire industry and is the reason we are sitting here having this discussion in the first place.

So the studio is an instrument, and you can explore SOME musical elements using one. But each and every instrument is a different lens through which to view this world of music. so if you only stick to one instrument you are limiting your own experience of the world of music. you'll be missing out on whole new dimensions you didn't know existed!

If I were to restrict myself to JUST violin and say "the other instruments are a waste of time" that would be just as stupid as restricting oneself to the DAW and not picking up an instrument. You will have a more complete multi-faceted musical experience if you learn more.

[jancivil]

Try thinking out of the box...

try addressing what someone said. try that instead of using cliches glibly to characterize someone's thought you don't know at all.

Think outside of your ass.

the idea that a musician has tools a non-musician does not, as per making music, is no box.

[jancivil]

Yeah, about past argument, I was about to write an unnecessarily long argument about why doing everything in DAW is no way of failure.

It's really unreasonable to say that doing everything in your DAW is the wrong way. It's a possible way and for some people, I'm sure, it's the better way.

I use a DAW 100% of the time. I know my skills in it owe to real-world experience. Do you know what your skills would be if you got more pro-active with the learning?

[jancivil]

Now I can 'fake' many, even most things. There's a connection.

You are implying your superior intelligence to the extent you can skip all this. I say you're kidding yourself.
Show proof of concept, post your melodies you 'composed', do.

Try thinking out of the box...

1. I am not trying to 'fake' real instruments. It's waste of time and it's stupid, because it's easier to play the real one or find someone who plays the real one.
2. I can compose something that you wouldn't be able to play and it would sound musical.

In order to satisfy your interest, here's the song I made ten years ago, before I learned playing any instrument at all (everything was done in Jeskola Buzz):
http://soundcloud.com/lokifuego/revolution-n2-anarchy

yeah, that's some bullshit. That's a metal kind of guitar sound, it isn't new to me, it isn't any new instrument or approach, it's an attempt to recreate something as you hear it. Which is no problem, but what it does not show me is how you aren't faking real instruments.

This was supposed to be evidence of your approach to melody and show us how good you are having never played any.
Are you really confident it does that?

Also it is not easier for me to play saxophone or another instrument and when I require it I can cut the part on my DAW, instead of paying someone. that's a skill you won't obtain. period.

[jancivil]

I think putting music coders down for not playing an instrument is elitist and sort of stuck-up, but on the other hand, you know, if you can code a piano roll, then you bloody well know how to play a keyboard.

bullshit. I rule the piano roll. I cannot play piano particularly well. In objective terms, I'm just no good at it. However I know my intervals, from around. *knowing how* to play it would mean I could do a better job at it. that would involve, you know, experience with fingerings and position. it won't be teste any way other than 'play this and show me you can'.

the other hand is empty.

and I'm not here to 'put someone down'. If someone believes they can bypass musical skills and make as good a music as they would doing the work that WILL make you better, that delusion needs to be countered for the impressionable youth or whatever that happen by and read it; it's false, and I'm telling youse the truth.

[tapper mike]

improvisational skills - band in a box.

Not a daw but a great way to learn covers, improvise and write jazz, blues, rock, country and more. Not to mention an wonderful tool for improvisation. Used as a teaching tool in various middle, high, junior college, college and universities.

And surprisingly affordable
http://www.pgmusic.com/