Dance/House melody + melody rhythm

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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Loki Fuego wrote:Or you could just try knocking out the rhythm on your table. If you want to go chromatic, try singing the melody. The instrument might probably require a bit of tuning, but over the time it will get better. And here we go, no need for the instrument at all :P

PS: That's how I studied music.
True. :) But in my opinion, being a good singer is equivalent with playing an instrument. Skrillex also was a singer, as has been said.
Though if someone has difficulty with maintaining pitch, starting with an instrument and then gradually improving control of one's voice can be more rewarding and easier.

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Nystul wrote:I don't mean this as an insult but just a reflection on the digression this thread took. I'm not sure how much musical training is needed for some of these dance genres because there is so little traditional composition involved. The track linked in the original post has a nice 4 bar riff and a 4 note bass line. Aside from the drum parts which are very basic and typical, this is pretty much the extent of the composition. If one played guitar or something they could jam for an hour and come with hundreds of "compositions" like this. But if you only need one I don't see why playing an instrument would be required. Besides you can always borrow the riff from someone else. The real skill seems to be in slowly building up the sound of the parts, then dropping everything out, changing up the drums, etc. to get drunk party people to bounce around for 5 or 10 minutes to the same 10 notes.
Heh. It's clear to me that EDM is not very subtle music.

sure, if that's all you want out of music, don't be arsed to learn more. But here these days we have people with an extremely limited experience and not great information beyond that experience with advice and their idea of a pedagogy.

if the thrust of the music theory board is to advise people that theory, that learning more of music is a waste of time, I guess I've found my future shock.

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Loki Fuego wrote: If you wonder how I'm not faking real instrument just listen to the next track I posted.
why would I? To the POINT: You have shown exactly nothing by that music that transcends instruments or shown how your special approach obviated learning an instrument. What I challenged you on in fhe first place is show us your melodic adeptness, you as a non-player. I didn't find it. I'm not wondering.

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Loki Fuego wrote:
jancivil wrote:
D.Josef wrote:
I think putting music coders down for not playing an instrument is elitist and sort of stuck-up, but on the other hand, you know, if you can code a piano roll, then you bloody well know how to play a keyboard.
If someone believes they can bypass musical skills and make as good a music as they would doing the work that WILL make you better, that delusion needs to be countered for the impressionable youth or whatever that happen by and read it; it's false, and I'm telling youse the truth.
Don't confuse your own opinion with the truth.

1. Music theory would help to make a better music, but it's not a prerequisite. You can make good music without knowing music theory.
2. Playing a real instrument would help to make a better music, but it's not a prerequisite. You can make good music without playing real instrument.
3. Dedicating yourself to studying music theory and playing an instrument will just help you to learn music theory and to play the instrument.
4. Knowing music theory and playing instrument won't help to make good music, unless you dedicate yourself to the art.
5. If you dedicate yourself to the art, you will one way or another learn the skills which are really necessary to make good music.
6. Arguing with jancivil will not help you to make a better music. If you get too involved in that, it would be just a waste of time.
this argumentation is daft and inept...

You got involved enough with arguing with me to grant me my main point, in fact. Which you contradict with 'point 3'.

Which is unsupportable. You simply don't know, you have not done that, so your idea of it is just a guess, a baseless assumption out of an opinion... which seems to be an excuse to learn less of music.

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Functional wrote:I think there's just one thing that needs clarification

To me, it felt like jancivil was trying to make a statement that without knowing how to play an instrument, your chances of succeess with musical career through using DAW's will be very limited.

And very limited is the part that needs clarification.
Without ever having this experience, what has someone replaced it with? Their superior ___? Fill in that blank for me. Otherwise you will have to dismiss that experience. Is this your premise?
Functional wrote: I don't think it's fair to state boldly that using DAW only without ever playing a real instrument will get you mostlikely nowhere, because there's no real evidence for such statement. Even artists that would have used only their DAW's, probably wouldn't admit it that easily, because it may cause some loss of respect among some people. But on the contrary, there's no real evidence either that it's a must for you to know how to play a real instrument
this is pure sophistry and deserves no response.

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D.Josef wrote:
jancivil wrote:bullshit. I rule the piano roll. I cannot play piano particularly well. In objective terms, I'm just no good at it. However I know my intervals, from around. *knowing how* to play it would mean I could do a better job at it. that would involve, you know, experience with fingerings and position. it won't be teste any way other than 'play this and show me you can'.
There is no disagreement between us. What I wanted to say was that if someone already has the connection between the visual layout of the keyboard and musical notes and intervals, then even if one is "no good at it", a physical keyboard shouldn't be all that scary and alien.

And yes, I never said you don't have to learn fingerings and position, those make up a huge part of being a pianist, but you know, I do think it's bloody worth it. :D
ok, my bad then. there is such rampant bullshit these days I guess I should keep a scorecard.

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jancivil wrote:
Loki Fuego wrote:
jancivil wrote:
D.Josef wrote:
I think putting music coders down for not playing an instrument is elitist and sort of stuck-up, but on the other hand, you know, if you can code a piano roll, then you bloody well know how to play a keyboard.
If someone believes they can bypass musical skills and make as good a music as they would doing the work that WILL make you better, that delusion needs to be countered for the impressionable youth or whatever that happen by and read it; it's false, and I'm telling youse the truth.
Don't confuse your own opinion with the truth.

1. Music theory would help to make a better music, but it's not a prerequisite. You can make good music without knowing music theory.
2. Playing a real instrument would help to make a better music, but it's not a prerequisite. You can make good music without playing real instrument.
3. Dedicating yourself to studying music theory and playing an instrument will just help you to learn music theory and to play the instrument.
4. Knowing music theory and playing instrument won't help to make good music, unless you dedicate yourself to the art.
5. If you dedicate yourself to the art, you will one way or another learn the skills which are really necessary to make good music.
6. Arguing with jancivil will not help you to make a better music. If you get too involved in that, it would be just a waste of time.
this argumentation is daft and inept...

You got involved enough with arguing with me to grant me my main point, in fact. Which you contradict with 'point 3'.

Which is unsupportable. You simply don't know, you have not done that, so your idea of it is just a guess, a baseless assumption out of an opinion... which seems to be an excuse to learn less of music.
Could you please clarify your last point? I assume that was an attempt to show your superiority? Unfortunately, you didn't follow me throughout the thread, otherwise you would have noticed that:
a) I was studying classical music theory;
b) I'm learning playing piano (I also play bass guitar).
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud

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Loki Fuego wrote:
jancivil wrote: 3. Dedicating yourself to studying music theory and playing an instrument will just help you to learn music theory and to play the instrument.
Could you please clarify your last point? Unfortunately, you didn't follow me throughout the thread, otherwise you would have noticed that:
a) I was studying classical music theory;
b) I'm learning playing piano (I also play bass guitar).
What I noticed was you, consistently arguing point 3 or things congruent with it. That you posted some music as if to answer my challenge, show your melodic acumen you got from only ever having been at a DAW.

You limit a result to what you imagine the result will be. You aren't there, you are not at that end of the process. Whether or not you've begun it isn't as pertinent to what I'm trying to say to you.

I have learned one instrument to a kind of point I would call 'quite competent'. I know that this has fed my understanding of music in a deeper way. I also obtained some mastery of music theory. Not every aspect, certainly, some mastery. I know that this did more than make me a music theory person. I apply it all the time; it means for one thing my ear is going to be better [trained] than yours.

There is no way you can get rid of that. So what you have ia an assertion that isn't true. You can't know these things, impossible. You have atomized things conceptually, for no good reason I can see, and assumed your hypothesis is true. It's just not any good. You're enjoying your own brand, as Fat Bastard would say.

IDK, maybe it will work that way, your music theory won't do anything but make you able to regurgitate it. I've seen that result here. It shouldn't be the result. It should be holistic.

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For the record, as per your sig, I think you might reflect on the value of you giving advice on the music theory forum.

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jancivil wrote:For the record, as per your sig, I think you might reflect on the value of you giving advice on the music theory forum.
Insulting me like this will get you nowhere.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud

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isn't an insult, that's a suggestion. I love your 'I'm rubber, you're glue' stylee over to the other thread on this point. You sure showed me!

I think you are not versed particularly in the area of theory. I don't think you're a teacher of it. I don't take you as very qualified to offer advice, or really what you have offered is validation to the next person that wants to be convinced, or find the device to convince themselves, to do less work in music. Which you did out of pure combativeness? as "revealed" subsequently, if I am to take you at your word, you *are* studying and practicing. And to validate your previous efforts I suppose, done before the current endeavors, piano lessons and what-not.

You aren't being a reflective character in this movie. You're being 'that guy'....

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Someone's got her grannypants in a bunch.
Synapse Audio Dune 3 I'm in love

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tapper mike wrote:Someone's got her grannypants in a bunch.
Again :roll:

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coquillo wrote:
tapper mike wrote:Someone's got her grannypants in a bunch.
Again :roll:
i teach 13-year-old high schoolers who are more mature and more respectful than you.

ignorance banding together with more ignorance... even if you are in the majority it is still nothing more than ignorance.

you do realize that this WHOLE discussion is about whether learning skills is beneficial or not... i guess you don't need to if you're only interested in making comments like that.

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I would be warned with a ban for that pure ad hominem I bet.

It's retaliatory. going for the pants and the age is kind of coarse though.

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