KVR Audio

MeteoXavier · Post by **MeteoXavier** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:29 am

I wasn't sure if this was the forum for this question, but it seems the most appropriate for now.

I'm an indie videogame composer trying to move into more commercial genres of electronic music and try to build an actual fanbase and get on more popular electronica websites and PR places.

But I'm running into trouble actually trying to do it myself and its not the tools or production. I have the tools and I can figure out production, what I'm having trouble with is actually composing it - I'm so used to working off of a catchy, memorable or epic melody that I can't figure out how to do a track built off of minimal chords, repetition, and FX modulation.

I'm told by some that, actually, heavily melodic EDM is some of the most popular and that makes it easier for me, but then I wonder why so many people still gravitate towards EDM that isn't.

Basically, I'm trying to avoid what happened with the first run of my first album, where I was trying to be bold and infuse a lot of different genres in there - no one would touch it, especially PR people, because it was "too new-age" or "too ambient". It takes me a lot of time to do music and I don't want to do music no one will listen to anymore, and I don't want to do commercial electronic music that listeners will pass on because "it sound too videogame-y" or something.

So thats basically my question. How melodic can I make EDM and IDM tracks? Can I have them lead by strong melodies? Or how does that work?

Basically, I'd like to do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEhEUiE ... plpp_video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH36yjQ ... plpp_video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAF7srrmRU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUC17C-DgDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuosT3COCBM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfMonET ... re=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2xnstu ... re=related

Just not always in a DnB or Trance context.

Also, for reference, I'm actually almost tone-deaf from brain-damage, so listening to Deadmau5 100 times really won't teach me anything. Please don't give me useless advice like "just listen to popular EDM artists and do what they do." If it were that easy, I'd already be doing it.

With that in mind, thank you for any advice you might be willing to offer me.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:17 pm

I hate to be a jerk but if you're going to focus on music that's commercially popular, rather than music you enjoy creating, wont you get sick of it and want to quit? Dance music is formula. That's why there's an unending stream of it. It's the easiest thing to make that has any structure at all. If you feel you HAVE to make it, I think you should at least make it YOUR way. Do you want to make money on dribs and drabs of formula music that gets licensed for commercials, games and whatnot, or do you want to like what you do? It sounds to me as though you're reluctant but feel forced. That's not a path to a satisfying career; it's a path to burnout.

But then what do I know. I'm not at all marketable myself and the stuff I like isn't either. But I still listen to what I like and still try to make what I like.

The only other best suggestion I can offer is to check out Photophob's earlier releases, as reference to melodic dance styles. I'd never have called it dance of any kind, but he did. http://archive.org/search.php?query=pho ... Anetlabels
Check out "Music For Spaceports."

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:19 pm

I'm having a hard time believing that brain damage would cause tone deafness. Melodic content requires that you be able to differentiate between notes. Even death people can do that.

http://www.ted.com/talks/evelyn_glennie ... isten.html

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:27 pm

tapper mike wrote:I'm having a hard time believing that brain damage would cause tone deafness. Melodic content requires that you be able to differentiate between notes. Even death people can do that.

http://www.ted.com/talks/evelyn_glennie ... isten.html

of course brain damage can cause tone deafness, melody requires the brain to compute the information cllected by the ears and convert it into something we can understand. if there is damage within the brain it could interrupt this flow of information quite easily.

and "death people" tend not to be able to do anything. at all.

MeteoXavier · Post by **MeteoXavier** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:32 pm

...this is news to me. I think I should take a break from researching this topic and switch to that one then.

My point was that I can't listen to something and go "Oh, thats just C Minor, Ab, G minor...", even after training, and just recreate from ear like everyone tells me to do. But yeah, I have some questions now because that was my last understanding on that.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:34 pm

vurt wrote:and "death people" tend not to be able to do anything. at all.

ARE YOU REALLY SURE?

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:36 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:
vurt wrote:and "death people" tend not to be able to do anything. at all.
ARE YOU REALLY SURE?

the gorillaz are animated, not dead.

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:37 pm

MeteoXavier wrote:I can't listen to something and go "Oh, thats just C Minor, Ab, G minor...", even after training, and just recreate from ear like everyone tells me to do.

Most people can't. Even many processional musicians can't. Unless you start very early in life, it can take many years of ear training to be able to do this sort of thing consistently accurately, and even then, if you have a "bad ear" to begin with, you might never be able to do so.
I wouldn't worry about it. There are much more important skills to develop.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:39 pm

vurt wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:
vurt wrote:and "death people" tend not to be able to do anything. at all.
ARE YOU REALLY SURE?

the gorillaz are animated, not dead.

Demon Albarn said that they won't be re-animated...

MeteoXavier · Post by **MeteoXavier** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:41 pm

JumpingJackFlash wrote:
MeteoXavier wrote: I wouldn't worry about it. There are much more important skills to develop.

Well, that doesn't do me any good as I try to learn this stuff, because I've had no luck in finding any MIDI files to teach me the composition and the only f**king thing anyone ever offers as advice is "Just use your ears and do what they're doing, derp." **sus.

There are parts of it in Youtube videos, but they don't go very far, none of the ones I've seen.

experimental.crow · Post by **experimental.crow** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:43 pm

JumpingJackFlash wrote:
MeteoXavier wrote:I can't listen to something and go "Oh, thats just C Minor, Ab, G minor...", even after training, and just recreate from ear like everyone tells me to do.
Most people can't. Even many processional musicians can't. Unless you start very early in life, it can take many years of ear training to be able to do this sort of thing consistently accurately, and even then, if you have a "bad ear" to begin with, you might never be able to do so.
I wouldn't worry about it. There are much more important skills to develop.

processional musicians tend to just organize to walk in a formal , or ceremonial manner ...

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:46 pm

MeteoXavier wrote: Well, that doesn't do me any good as I try to learn this stuff, because I've had no luck in finding any MIDI files to teach me the composition ...

http://www.dancemidisamples.com/midi-packs-main.html

[2c]

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:51 pm

MeteoXavier wrote:Well, that doesn't do me any good as I try to learn this stuff, because I've had no luck in finding any MIDI files to teach me the composition and the only f**king thing anyone ever offers as advice is "Just use your ears and do what they're doing, derp." **sus.

Perhaps downloading MIDI files and watching YoiTube videos isn't the most productive way of doing it then?
Like I just wrote on another thread, perhaps you would benefit from lessons, reading books and a few years of practice..?

normal wrote:processional musicians tend to just organize to walk in a formal , or ceremonial manner ...

Lol, that was quite a funny typo

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:57 pm

vurt wrote:and "death people" tend not to be able to do anything. at all.

Yes. Despite anyone's best efforts the lazy bastards won't even get up from the floor, let alone listen to anything.

MeteoXavier · Post by **MeteoXavier** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:00 pm

JumpingJackFlash wrote: Perhaps downloading MIDI files isn't the most productive way of doing it then?
Like I just wrote on another thread, perhaps you would benefit from lessons, reading books and a few years of practice..?

There isn't anyone around here who gives EDM lessons and why wouldn't MIDI files be the most productive in learning composition? That's how I learned VGM. I just went to vgmusic.com, downloaded a shit-ton of MIDIs, studied them for a while and thats it. If a MIDI file is done right, I can see the entire composition and arrangement.

Anyway, this is really off-topic. I just want to know if I can make commercial quasi-mainstream music lead with strong melody content without people going "ugh, sounds too videogame-y".

How melodic can I get away with in EDM/IDM?