Indian classical music is, as far as the western musician is concerned to denote, modal. These modes fmr says are 'misconceptions' because they conflict with first of all ancient greek writings and second of all a particular concept of medieval terminology and practice, have corresponding objects for instance in ICM. The 'book' there for Hindustani music was actually formulated relatively recently and does not escape western influence; eg., the Bilaval Thaat corresponds with Ionian Mode. Qua :modal:, ie., absent certain connotations of and outside conventions of harmonic practice or *tonality*.thebaggytrouseredone wrote:A lot of what is being said here relates to classical and church theory. Modes were more used in folk music and not used in classical music.
At a time during the 19th century, some musicians began to look to antiquity and to the East to escape conventionality and obtain some new effects. One of these involved taking a mode qua :modal:. Not necessarily per the Liturgical music.
Jazz harmony is a certain treatment of and attitude towards pretty typical principles of harmony rather than anything very new (in the area of 'modern', cats were just catching up to Debussy in the 1960's. Satie was planing fourths 70 years before McCoy Tyner.).thebaggytrouseredone wrote: Along comes Jazz and harmony, modern harmony, changes.
Modern jazz was initially about obtaining new effects per Tin Pan Alley and/or Broadway Show Tunes. One played these tunes in order to gig. The lingo of modes rather entered the picture following modal jazz, which actually sought relief from this approach, of tonal harmony 'jazzed up'. ii-V-I was approaching a cul de sac. Miles et al did just what Debussy et al did the previous century, looked to the east and :modal:.
Look, if it helps someone starting out as a kind of mnemonic, to remember the correspondence of intervals, chord:scale, all well and good to take 'E Phrygian' out of its context to notice there is eg., a coloristic 'flat 9' in it, F per E (That's not a good example as that's going to be rare at best, m7-9.).thebaggytrouseredone wrote: In Jazz modes relate to chords and chords relate to modes, for example,
C Major - C major 7
D Doruian - D Minor 7
E Phrygian - E minor 7 flat 9
F Lydian - F Major 7 augmented 4
G Mixolydian - G Dominant 7
A Aeolian - A Minor 7 flat 6
B Locrian - B half diminished 7
But if you're doing Dm7, G7 as ii V, there is a target implied. Basically C, or I. So when one gets further along with the thinking, one simplifies (or vacates) this verbalization of things. Calling something D dorian, now G mixolydian, when there is clearly C Major as the key at the time involves non-essential, unnecessary names for what really is nothing more than a C major scale to consider. I think that if you have all of this lingo in your head trying to improvise you're in your own way. We are most aware of where we're going - targets, plot points - and how to create momentum/drive, and be interesting/colorful doing that, in this harmonic type of action.