Playing in modes

[tapper mike]

One doesn't hear a lot of Dorian modes elaborated in jazz because.... it's passing.

If it's 'passing' it was never Dorian mode. Now you have it finally though, a term such as 'Dorian mode' means modal music.

If it lasts for a duration of more then a half measure then it can indeed be called dorian. Long enough to determine the chord construct.
Kessel makes this very clear when he states you can improvise using any scale notes that support the chord you are playing over. if that chord happens to be the ii7 then the obvious choice would be to play the dorian mode for as long as that chord is playing which isn't too long as usually it's a measure or less. Chords are in motion "passing" not static and the improvisation is derived from that chord progression using appropriate modes that support each chord.

Shall we go through the whole guide tone thing again?

[jancivil]

Why do you want to go into 'guide tones'? Do you feel driven to challenge me on another aspect of jazz out of all the times I refuted you on this one? (I didn't use "guide tones". I didn't need 'jazz school', frankly. I understand in ii-V on a chordal instrument to take the third and seventh particularly in voicings {eg., the third of ii is the seventh of V, DUH.} and my improvisation in such case will be informed by this principle. I assure you I have this and have demonstrated it here with actual writing. So what? You take yet ANOTHER opp to launch into your chord theory things.) This is entirely off-topic.

It's 'D Dorian' when D is the basis, the 'tonic' as it were, ONE and the row is 1, M2, m3, P4, P5, M6, m7.
I was optimistic that you have gotten it finally. But no, that hope was misplaced. You want to tie it to some chord business. Dorian mode is what it is, man. It does not depend on some stuff you know otherwise. That is a well-confused way to operate. Cart does not pull horse.

I didn't need Barney Kessell or another appeal to authority to support a statement (Kessell did some great work, particularly supporting Julie London. As an authority for this topic, no sir I don't like it). If Dm = ii, the key is unquestionably C major. If Dø7 is ii7, the key is clearly C minor. A MODE, eg., D dorian is impossible in both scenarios. You or perhaps Kessell needs the word 'dorian' to support Dm when it's ii? Pointless and more to think about than anyone needs. I reckon the thing of a certain # of bars (I think that's a silly thing to state as a per se, since the tempo beyond a certain point has reduced the duration enough) gives us D AS ONE, which is the whole thing. But we're playing modally for a moment. One would think you know what that is pretty much, yet you are totally ready to leave that and toss it into harmonic practice. You're all mixed up.

What is hard to grasp about ii-V being a function of I and any scalar material belongs to the de facto I? It's just obtuse. It occurs to me you're confused as to what 'mode' is. You said 'any scale that supports the chord can be used'. Well, the scale for Dm as ii is C major. There is no mode to speak of. If they teach that a mode = a scale in jazz college, that's a sad f**king situation. That professor is probably going to be refuted by the teach for 'Modal Jazz' and the student is unnecessarily confused.

[jsljustin]

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