KVR Audio

janiksutice · Post by **janiksutice** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:18 pm

Hey,

I've been really into different modes like Dorian or Lydian the last time.
My producer friends don't really like using them, I love it, so I wanted to hear some other thoughts on this topic.
Also, if you know some examples of existing songs using one of these modes, please comment them below. I'll give it a start:

Coldplay - Paradise (Dorian)
Hans Zimmer - Time (Dorian)
Alesso - Years (Dorian)
Porter Robinson - Language (Lydian)

If you are new to this, take a look at the Wiki page:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)#Analysis

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:58 pm

The title of the thread ("non-Western modes") is a bit ambiguous. Dorian, Lydian and so on are Western modes (they were used long before the Major/Minor key system came into existence).

Although the way those modes were used in medieval times is not quite the same as how they're used (in pop/rock/jazz music) today...

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:08 pm

A new thriller around the modes? The poor guy who started the thread the probably don't know where he has tangled himself...

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:14 pm

Your producer friends sound like they make very boring music. Not liking modes is the music equivalent to only using missionary position in bed. "It gets the job done" *raises fist to air*

ChrisLexor · Post by **ChrisLexor** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:25 pm

The problem with modes is that they contain the exact same notes as standard scales anyway!

So there isn't really any difference in the music anyway.

I watched some Hans Zimmer video where he was talking about certain chords being "ambiguous" because you could change the "root" note or "bass" note and it would give the chord a different "sound" or "function"...

ie: If you play Em7 - it could be considered a G6 chord depending on the bass...

Also - Bobby 'O' Orlando once said that Chris Lowe (PSB) played certain chords the "wrong" way.

Basically - he might play an E minor instead of a G major over a bass pattern that was based around G.

You can get a lot of mileage out of this.

In terms of music theory - you basically learn about I, IV, V major triads and the II, III and VI minor triads to start out with and then you learn that you can play anything over any bass note with nothing being "wrong" or "right"

I was thinking about creating a blog about various chord sequences and stuff...as there's a lot of interest in that sort of thing.

The best way to learn about this stuff is to get a cheap keyboard / guitar and a bunch of music books.

Also - playing along with records and sussing things out by ear and writing things down helps.

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:39 pm

ChrisLexor wrote:I was thinking about creating a blog about various chord sequences and stuff

Please don't.
With respect, your post tells me that you don't know enough to set yourself up as any kind of authority on the subject. I don't doubt that your intentions are good, but you will only confuse and mislead people.

No offence.

ChrisLexor wrote:The problem with modes is that they contain the exact same notes as standard scales anyway!
So there isn't really any difference in the music anyway.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:40 pm

And so it begins...

janiksutice · Post by **janiksutice** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:42 pm

JumpingJackFlash wrote:The title of the thread ("non-Western modes") is a bit ambiguous. Dorian, Lydian and so on are Western modes (they were used long before the Major/Minor key system came into existence).

Although the way those modes were used in medieval times is not quite the same as how they're used (in pop/rock/jazz music) today...

I'm sorry for the misleading title, my teacher keeps referring to those modes as 'non-western', so I thought it's right.

ChrisLexor wrote:The problem with modes is that they contain the exact same notes as standard scales anyway!

So there isn't really any difference in the music anyway.

I think there is a big difference, that's what I find so interesting.

And for me it's not about learning, I just wanted to hear some thoughts on those modes in Dance music (sorry, I didn't say that this way)

Sendy wrote:Your producer friends sound like they make very boring music. Not liking modes is the music equivalent to only using missionary position in bed

I thought the same.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:49 pm

janiksutice wrote:I'm sorry for the misleading title, my teacher keeps referring to those modes as 'non-western', so I thought it's right.

Your teacher needs a smack upside the head. Seriously. Next he'll be telling you sus2 isn't a proper chord.

janiksutice wrote:And for me it's not about learning, I just wanted to hear some thoughts on those modes in Dance music (sorry, I didn't say that this way)

Phrygian is pretty common in psytrance, although one of the reasons why that came about is probably why your teacher reckons these aren't western modes.

janiksutice · Post by **janiksutice** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:54 pm

Ok haha, I'll slap him for you, ok?

So how would you call these modes then?

I think Phrygian is commonly used for expression some kind of sadness, which I think is true in Psy-Trance.
Ah, Pryda - The End is phrygian if anybody is still interested in this.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:14 pm

janiksutice wrote:Ok haha, I'll slap him for you, ok?

So how would you call these modes then?

Just 'modes' is fine.

But if you prefer, 'Modern Western modes' to distinguish them from the Church modes developed by Guido d'Arezzo and his followers and the Ancient Greek modes, which are quite different, mainly because d'Arezzo didn't do a very good job of working out what the Greek modes were meant to be.

The Church modes are more or less the same as the modern ones, but they come with extra rules that don't really apply to any modern form of music (unless you want to recreate some monk-style chanting).

janiksutice · Post by **janiksutice** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:22 pm

I changed the title, so everybody is happy.

And thank you for this explanation, I didn't know there were differences between the Church and the modern modes.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:27 pm

I guess I should probably stress at this point, there are a gazillion other scales and modes from all parts of the world that you can use – raise the fourth in the Phrygian and you effectively get the Todi scale from Indian music.

There's no need to stick to the western modes or stick to the notes only available in each (and very few real-world pop songs that are any good do, and that's just pop).

Be careful though, or the cultural appropriation police will be on your tail.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:36 pm

Once again... Mickael Hewitt.

A very good book of four hundred pages for only $3 in its numeric edition!!!

(Click the picture)

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:37 pm

ChrisLexor wrote:The problem with modes is that they contain the exact same notes as standard scales anyway!

So there isn't really any difference in the music anyway.

In terms of music theory - you basically learn about I, IV, V major triads and the II, III and VI minor triads to start out with and then you learn that you can play anything over any bass note with nothing being "wrong" or "right"

I was thinking about creating a blog.

That is not a 'problem' with modes. You clearly don't know what they are. There is a difference (modal music vs major/minor paradigm, for starters) but you're too interested in talking to listen. There are thing which happen out of chords which ruin a mode. Modes are not about the chord usage in tonal music. There are things to know about you don't have time for. I doubt the world needs a blog from you at this point.

Your thoughts on modes