Your thoughts on modes

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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fmr wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
jancivil wrote: The answer is 'you call them scales'.
Yes, but that's not sufficient. It is a "subset" of scales that people want to label. If you have no other label, then you have your answer as to why people call them modes.
What is a "subset" of scales? What the hell is that? Do you actually KNOW anything about music? A subset of scales, admiting there is one, would be when you play less than seven notes. If you play seven notes in a row, you play a scale. This is "Music 101", you can't be any lower than this.

You said you don't care where people come from to music. You are trying to keep them in the lower state where you are. I don't care where they come from either, but at least I care where they go. I try to show them there is more than that small world you live in.
He's done this before. I think I kind of got the drift a while back in this kind of discussion, that there is a type of person that isn't really very curious and that should we exceed 'the OP' as we did here, it's upsetting.

I don't care where people come from, that's a dodgy damned thing to throw in. When I came upon modal music I didn't have any theory book. A couple of years later I was told by a man I had actually played with onstage that I could not take theory class until 11th grade. I never made it to 11th grade. I'm no intellectual, I do not come from any elite.

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My goodness, children, I'm glad I already know music theory because threads like these would scare me away from learning it. This Music Theory forum is seriously the biggest bummer on KVR. I propose it be renamed "Territorial Pissings & Endless Semantic Argumentation" to more accurately reflect its content. Talk about noise to signal ratio...

Back OT - my thoughts on modes? They're great, I use 'em all the time.

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ghettosynth wrote: Again, you misread. I did not say that modes are a subset of scales. I said that the "set of scales", that people refer to as modes, are a subset of scales. Please, without getting into bonafides, let's accept that I'm well aware of the definition of a set.
You said and I quote 'it' is a subset of scales.

So now you have tacitly acknowledged that 'that set of scales' in people's misconstruction is not the fact of 'modes'. So I think you did not correct anybody's anything, you're just dancing around trying not to be as wrong as you were.

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Winstontaneous wrote:My goodness, children, I'm glad I already know music theory because threads like these would scare me away from learning it. This Music Theory forum is seriously the biggest bummer on KVR. I propose it be renamed "Territorial Pissings & Endless Semantic Argumentation" to more accurately reflect its content. Talk about noise to signal ratio...
So you're saying that arguments about meanings is empty, noise. Tough shit for you, be somewhere else.

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When you guys have finally had enough of wanking over your own immaculate greatness, would you kindly take the time to explain to us what you understand modes to be.

Not "you clearly have no idea" or "I can't believe you've misrepresented such a blatant and obvious truth", but actually illustrate your own understanding in terms that are understandable to those of us who may not already know these things.

Pissing all over the place to mark you territory isn't big and clever, it's just proof that you ain't housebroken yet.

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ghettosynth wrote:
jancivil wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:But I don't think that you're achieving that. I don't think that you know, or you simply have too much contempt for, where that crowd is coming from.
I see where you're coming from, you have pointed to a "helpful" article that is so wrong and so clueless I'm amazed. How many times are we going to do this stupid dance?
I prefaced the article with "Right or Wrong", go back and read if you doubt it. I am not arguing ANYTHING with respect to music here other than, as stated, "people that start these threads often find those approaches useful."

And I don't believe that.

Yes, you don't argue anything with respect to music, you want to say that people are helped by some inane crap vis a vis the thread which strayed from 'they just want to use the modes as scales in EDM', which is meaningless. I'm not projecting anything. When you say 'I don't think you are achieving what you think you are', it was about me.

You won't kid me about things I actually experienced. It's not honest to try.

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sjm wrote:When you guys have finally had enough of wanking over your own immaculate greatness, would you kindly take the time to explain to us what you understand modes to be.

Not "you clearly have no idea" or "I can't believe you've misrepresented such a blatant and obvious truth", but actually illustrate your own understanding in terms that are understandable to those of us who may not already know these things.

Pissing all over the place to mark you territory isn't big and clever, it's just proof that you ain't housebroken yet.
:lol: Yeah that's how you want to talk to someone in the position to teach you for free, isn't it.

I have done, in this thread and in every thread that's about modes.
"If all-white-keys E Phrygian has E as 'tonic', or center and we haven't destroyed it with harmonies that pull to C major, and play modally (respect its character basically) 'E Phrygian' is a perfectly useful name." In fact I've written extensively about it in these pages. If you took the time to read and not just look for a problem you can use to seem like you're better than somebody, you have access to it.
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I may be more mental than usual, but I see people arguing with themselves about issues they already agree on. At least get a sock puppet account to make it more interesting. You know, like NAS did before he got banned.

Also, this subject has lost its thread. It's not about modes any more.

"No, I don't believe in modes, anymore.."

It's about semantics, philosophy, and arguing for its own sake.

Talking about music is like reading about sex.

I just said that, but I bet someone said it better before me.

Never mind. Forget I was ever here.

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sjm wrote:When you guys have finally had enough of wanking over your own immaculate greatness, would you kindly take the time to explain to us what you understand modes to be.
What I understand, and I might be totally wrong, is that before there were black keys on a keyboard, there were only white keys, and it was all a bit boring, so to spice it up, they decided to transpose their scales by a semi-tone or two, or three, or more. They found that they could do this all the way up the scale, five or six or seven notes..

They called these scales in retrospect, Dorian (Jazz), Myxolydian (Jazz as well?), Phrygian (Egyptian?), etc.. obviously this is some centuries later. Those monks never knew what they started. So the subject is split and manifold. One man's modes are another man's sacred choral history. I don't know.

What I find peculiar is why any one would come on to kvr to ask about such things. Especially as kvr is known to be a place where no rational argument is to be found. This is a very technical and historical issue. It needs academic rigour in its approach, if one is even remotely serious about broaching this subject. Still, it's good for the lols.

Anyway, they put the black notes on the keyboard, and still they weren't satisfied. And hence jazz was born.

All notes boil down into the soup at the end of the day. A man only has so many fingers and so much breath. And a fellow only has two ears to listen. And one brain to interpret. Audio illusions abound, but we do not know what they are for the most part, and certainly never when we hear them, just like optical illusions.

I think I just disappeared up my own arse.

I'll probably get some nutter come on here now and agree with me.

KVR.

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ghettosynth wrote:
If you play seven notes in a row, you play a scale. This is "Music 101", you can't be any lower than this.
Subsets of a set contain the same elements of the set, this is elementary school mathematics, you can't be any lower than this? A set of alphabet blocks can be partitioned into subsets of individual letter blocks, e.g., the A subset, the B subset, etc. A subset of a set of games could contain a single game, or no games, but it could not contain game pieces. Notes could never be a subset of a set of scales, they could only be a subset of a set of notes. We could form a set of notes from a scale and then talk about a subset of that set. But when we're talking about a set of "scales" it is clear to anyone who wasn't sleeping through junior high school mathematics, that a non-empty subset would also contain scales.

So, people use the word modes to refer to the collection of scales that share names with modes, in the parent's case, he referred to the six most common scales used in pop music. That set of "scales" is a subset of the set of scales that people deal with in pop music. Here subset is used correctly both in the lay sense, and in the mathematical sense.
So, you have "a collection of scales" inside C Major? Wow, you certainlly missed your music classes :scared:

I really have to give up. You certainly aren't here to learn, you are here to confuse things even further. You can't have a "subset" of a single thing, even if you are math genius. C Major is C Major, no matter where you start or end. As I said, the only subset (if you call it that, which would be debatable) is if you play the scale with less than seven notes. You are the ignorant here, and, as all ignorants, you are trying to mud waters, creating diversions to try to come up with your arguments. But I will not play your game. I have no time to waste with people like you. :dog:
Fernando (FMR)

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forget about 'de facto'
Last edited by jancivil on Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jancivil wrote:I have done, in this thread and in every thread that's about modes.
Unfortunately I tend to skip the bickering which is probably why I missed your posts on the subject.

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