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Katelyn · Post by **Katelyn** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:53 am

Is there any chords that tend to go well with or bad with them?

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:57 am

Just try some...

Katelyn · Post by **Katelyn** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:08 am

I've tried many, apparently, since it's almost exactly like the Bhairav raga which I've been using a lot (but I think the western version has quarter tones on the first and last note). Though most of the ones I tried other than major/minor chords was stuff like separating the two notes by a tone and a half, two tones ect

From what I've tried in most cases a minor or major chord doesn't usually work that well but my understanding of chords is somewhat lacking hence the question. I've yet to find something that works well generally for it, since it tends to be up to how the rest of the melody falls if it works or not.

Unfocused · Post by **Unfocused** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:19 am

I'm no expert, but I would try removing the third. Try using quartal chords (e.g., sus2, sus4) and not equal tempered tuning. This will force you into writing in specific keys though (non-transposable). Good luck!

-u

anomandaris1 · Post by **anomandaris1** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:05 pm

Lots of Balkan, Arabic and Turkish pop/dance songs use normal major and minor chords... Using sus chords will give you too "jazzy" vibe.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:21 pm

When I hear the "exotic" scales based on the 12 tone system they are usually motif based with some constant behind them like a one chord vamp that hangs around a very long time until it's resolved usually via a V chord. That's the way I've heard it in a jazz "fusion" context.

As for sus4 chords against double harmonic scales sounding "jazzy" that's a new one on me. I freely admit that I don't know everything nor have heard everything.

When I think of quartal harmony in jazz I think McCoy Tyner. Who imposed pentatonic scales over quartal harmonies. But if you'll notice while he does play a not of quartal harmonies he interjects them with standard jazz chords as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=54&v=mvB1P7_aGZA

datroof · Post by **datroof** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:43 pm

Katelyn wrote:Is there any chords that tend to go well with or bad with them?

The chords that are going to sound most consonant with any given scale are chords made up of notes contained in that scale. If you haven't already, give that a try.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:12 am

Katelyn wrote:Is there any chords that tend to go well with or bad with them?

It's all relative to your upbringing if you haven't listened to music with scales like that then it will sound odd to your ears.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:32 pm

I've seen this before here oddly enough. The existence of the two augmented seconds in a seven-note scale makes triadic consideration in the usual way pretty dodgy, which is kind of self-revealing. What is the musical idea for sticking chords on the scale? These scales come from musical culture where a lot of chords don't happen. It's glomming an idea onto an idea just to do it, it seems like to me. Anyway, if you ran into difficulty the difficulty is inherent in the exercise, I wouldn't expect it not to be. Not your fault really.

Katelyn · Post by **Katelyn** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:24 pm

jancivil wrote:I've seen this before here oddly enough. The existence of the two augmented seconds in a seven-note scale makes triadic consideration in the usual way pretty dodgy, which is kind of self-revealing. What is the musical idea for sticking chords on the scale? These scales come from musical culture where a lot of chords don't happen. It's glomming an idea onto an idea just to do it, it seems like to me. Anyway, if you ran into difficulty the difficulty is inherent in the exercise, I wouldn't expect it not to be. Not your fault really.

You know, that kind of really fits with what I've noticed since finishing up more tracks since my OP here.

I thought maybe I was doing something wrong at first by not having a lot of chords, like I was lacking some dimension of the music. Then I realized that really the only chords that ever sound good are two note chords, but I almost never use those for anything but backing stuff like strings that are mostly whole notes anyway. So I only started to use them in limited situations.

I guess it hadn't occurred to me that chords were a mostly western thing, but it's kind of a relief hearing that, since it means I just wasn't totally sucking.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:32 pm

Yeah, no. It's common 'in the west' to have this received notion of the necessity of chords. I should perhaps state it more strongly. These scales come from musical culture where chords don't really happen. So as far as other parts, your concern is not so much vertical. Write lines that complement lines, in other words.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:58 pm

Katelyn wrote: I guess it hadn't occurred to me that chords were a mostly western thing, but it's kind of a relief hearing that, since it means I just wasn't totally sucking.

Actually, until the XVII century, western music didn't used chords either. Chords belong to tonal music, which was a system that slowly evolved from modal system (which has very much in common with what you are trying to accomplish) and defined a new way of creating music. In the late XIX century and early XX century that too evolved into something else.

In modal music, the melody commands, and chords are basically non existant. Even when present, they do not fill a function, like in tonality, but simply fill a gap. So, IMO what you say you are doing lately is what fits better.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:11 pm

Double harmonic minor (eg C Db E F G Ab B C) contains two maj7 chords ( Cma7 and Db ma 7 in this case) a semitone apart. That makes an interesting change but I agree with the other posters that modal music is more about lines and motifs than harmonic progressions.You can use some of the scale tone chords you extract from a particular mode to create an unusual set of harmonies.

Katelyn · Post by **Katelyn** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:58 pm

jancivil wrote:Yeah, no. It's common 'in the west' to have this received notion of the necessity of chords. I should perhaps state it more strongly. These scales come from musical culture where chords don't really happen. So as far as other parts, your concern is not so much vertical. Write lines that complement lines, in other words.

I'm kind of confused by your response, I can't tell if you are agreeing or not agreeing with me. I thought I was saying what you said made sense, and I was in agreement. But now I think I might of been misunderstood.

So I'll clarify what I meant:

By 'in the west' I meant scales like major and minor, as opposed to stuff like Arabic/Bhairav raga (arabic/Bhairav are identical either way) which is what I've been using a lot.

I had just recalled while chords are used a lot in modern music (rock pop ect hell the same chord progression even) it's not really there in ragas or much of any music influenced by Hindustani music. I've listened to some classical Indian music and I guess for some reason it just didn't click with me nor did I notice until you pointed it out.

egbert wrote:Double harmonic minor (eg C Db E F G Ab B C) contains two maj7 chords ( Cma7 and Db ma 7 in this case) a semitone apart. That makes an interesting change but I agree with the other posters that modal music is more about lines and motifs than harmonic progressions.You can use some of the scale tone chords you extract from a particular mode to create an unusual set of harmonies.

Well chord progression is another matter, I was just trying to find a way to add some harmonics to it. My genre does not sit well with chord progression, but I suppose that chords in of themselves are fine in some contexts.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:29 pm

Katelyn wrote:
jancivil wrote:Yeah, no. It's common 'in the west' to have this received notion of the necessity of chords. I should perhaps state it more strongly. These scales come from musical culture where chords don't really happen. So as far as other parts, your concern is not so much vertical. Write lines that complement lines, in other words.
I'm kind of confused by your response, I can't tell if you are agreeing or not agreeing with me. I thought I was saying what you said made sense, and I was in agreement. But now I think I might of been misunderstood.

So I'll clarify what I meant:

By 'in the west' I meant scales like major and minor, as opposed to stuff like Arabic/Bhairav raga (arabic/Bhairav are identical either way) which is what I've been using a lot.

I had just recalled while chords are used a lot in modern music (rock pop ect hell the same chord progression even) it's not really there in ragas or much of any music influenced by Hindustani music. I've listened to some classical Indian music and I guess for some reason it just didn't click with me nor did I notice until you pointed it out.

No, there is no disagreement. I'm reiterating in more detail that chords/vertical aren't a concern with these 'exotic' scales, that when there is more than say drone with a single performer spinning melody, it's two performers both doing melody in counterpoint. In rock we may encounter a two-chord vamp under the soloing.

chords and double harmonic scales