why there are double flat and double sharp

[phantamquyen]

Double flat and sharp is used to lower a key two semitone or a whole tone. So why don't just write for example: Dbb = C so just write C. why there are double flat... what the purpose of double flat and sharp when it can be simplified.

This is so confusing.

[bmrzycki]

Sheet music is a language conveying a musical idea. Unless you're John Cage you like structure and themes in the composition. Double sharps and double flats help to show movement and the composers intention. It can show that for one measure you play a note in the scale and in the next you play it flatted and in the one after that you flat the flat again. It tells you the composer wants a feeling of going down. Those same notes written with single flats and sharps may be the same notes but that intention of down is actually less clear.

Double sharps and flats are also used to preserve chord shapes when in unusual scales. For example, a minor chord is always taught as a major chord with the third lowered a semitone. That lowering is shown as a flatted note and if the third is already flatted then you need to flat it again.

Like I said, it's a language element and only makes sense in the context of a piece. But don't worry about it too much since you already understand the real note you need to play.

I hope this helps.

[MadBrain]

Double flat and sharp is used to lower a key two semitone or a whole tone. So why don't just write for example: Dbb = C so just write C. why there are double flat... what the purpose of double flat and sharp when it can be simplified.

This is so confusing.

It's the same reason E#, B#, Fb, Cb are used... Keys with a lot of sharps or flats are hard to write down in music notation, so in some (rare) situations it's easier to read F## than G, or Bbb than A.

Generally it's cases like this kind of progression in B major:
B D#7 G#m7

D#7 is written as: D# F## A# C#

In theory, you could write D#7 as Eb7, but then you'd be suddenly having lots of flats in a song with a lot of sharps and it would be confusing and hard to read. And while in theory you could write the individual notes as D# G A# C#, that is also confusing to read because when you see D-G-A in a chord, you expect some kind of suspended 4th chord, not a chord with a third (this is especially true in staff notation). So in this very particular case, F## is the most readable way of writing G.

[jancivil]

double sharps have always been 'x' IME; never once saw "##".



IE: Cx is ^7 of D#; also, we don't do 2 consec. letter names in a key or scale: eg., Fx in key of G#m. This is a matter of *spelling*.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Double flat and sharp is used to lower a key two semitone or a whole tone. So why don't just write for example: Dbb = C so just write C. why there are double flat... what the purpose of double flat and sharp when it can be simplified.

This is so confusing.

"write and right", "hear and here", "their and there", "too and two"...
They're all words which sound the same but yet they're spelt differently. Why?

You can give complex answers to that question based on etymology and so on, but the crux of it is essentially "because there is a right and a wrong way of spelling them".

In music, let's take the scale of E major for example: E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
Compared with, say, the scale of Ab major: Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab.

The former is spelt with C# and D#, the latter is spelt with Db and Eb. Why?
The easiest answer is because that's the correct way to spell them.

There are several "rules" in play here (just the way grammar and language has rules). There's the order of sharps/flats to consider, there's the fact that each of the 7 basic notes has to be represented exactly once (no more, no less) in a major or minor scale; you can't for example have both A# and A-natural.

Trying to spell E major with flats for example can't be done without violating the rules.
E, Gb, Ab, A... - Doesn't work because we've missed out an F and we've got an A twice.

Double flats and sharps work on exactly the same principle.
How do you spell the scale of G# minor?
Well, the natural minor would be: G#, A#, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#

If you want the harmonic minor however, you have to raise the seventh note by one semitone. One semitone higher than F-sharp is of course F-double-sharp (which I will represent with an x): G#, A#, B, C#, D#, E, Fx, G#.

You couldn't write it as G-natural since you already have G#.

Chords similarly are constructed in thirds. The triad of D major for example is D,F#,A.
D-F# is a third, F#-A is a third.
You can't spell it with a Gb because that doesn't create thirds (D-Gb is a fourth, Gb-A is a second).

So the Dominant of G# (harmonic) minor would be D#-Fx-A#.
You couldn't spell it with a G because that wouldn't be thirds.

[Aroused by JarJar]

Our musical notation system originates in the days when there were more than 12 tones to the octave. Before 12-tone equal temperament took over during the course of the 19th century, E and Fb for example were two distinct tones, about half a quartertone apart! The music was very tonal and "functional" (everything related to a clear tonal center and relative to the previously sounded notes, and to expected melodic movement and resolution of dissonance and so on) and acoustic (based on choral singing, really) so you could easily hear the difference between for example a major third and a diminished fourth, one which would be consonant and the other dissonant! In choral singing especially these differences are really huge- the dissonance goes wugga-wugga-wugga and the consonance blends into a single smooth sound! Our 12-tone equal temperament just compromises everything so it's never really too dissonant, or completely consonant either.

This is a very complex and controversial topic, even crossing over into topics such as globalization and gender issues! The people who are into it are mostly nutjobs, and if you compared it to a discussion about language and spelling in English, you'd have everything from people who think "I too would like a cigarette!" should be "Ich auch möchte eine Zigarette" to people who fight for "I also wud like uh sigaret!".

If you take a class at the community college or whatever in functional harmony, you won't have problems spelling "correctly", even if they never teach the history of why things are spelled the way they are!

Now I also wud like uh sigaret, so that's enough for now, hope this was helpful!

[Googly Smythe]

To sum up:
because.

[jancivil]

Sheet music is a language conveying a musical idea.

Double sharps and double flats help to show movement and the composers intention. It can show [...]
It tells you the composer wants a feeling of going down.
...written with single flats and sharps may be the same notes but that intention of down is actually less clear.

Like I said, it's a language element and only makes sense in the context of a piece. But don't worry about it too much since you already understand the real note you need to play.

Actually, it makes sense per se, in the abstract/as a principle.
As pointed out more than once, above, the given example Dbb would be the real note in a diatonic situation where we already have a C, that is Cb. In chromatic usage it may be that eg., Eb Db C Cb Bb makes as much sense as anything, but let's say we've gotten into the far end of the flats spectrum (diatonically) where we'll see Ab Bb Cb Dbb Eb Fb: for C to be the "real note", that line will be G# A# B C D# E. Which we may prefer to see and to write, but again we're already here in Far Flatsville so the latter spelling may be a compromise, depending on our destination.

Double sharps and flats are also used to preserve chord shapes when in unusual scales.

Kind of a tautology if we already understand the pure point of them which is correct spelling. I say that because chords are not primary, they are built from scales.

[Touch The Universe]

Maybe someone has mentioned it, but in very simple terms, the starting point of all scales in all keys should be written in the most basic form. A B C D E F G. What distinguishes them from each other is there number or sharps or flats, and since some scales require a whole tone away from its home key, double sharp/flat signs are necessary.