Question about melody voicing when using a borrowed chord

[YoungCrocket]

Hi everyone, hope your all having a great day. I've recently been expanding my theory knowledge by learning about borrowed chords. As I understand it, you can "borrow" notes from a parallel key to form new chords for your harmony. An example of this would be borrowing Eb while in C major to form a C minor triad.

My question is this. Are there any precautions I should take while writing my melody over the borrowed chord? If, for example, we take the aforementioned borrowed C minor triad in C major, should I avoid having the E natural play in the melody since Eb is playing in the harmony?

Also I'm pretty new to "borrowing" notes from parallel keys, if anyone has any tips, tricks, or compositional techniques please let me know.

Thank you!

[Jengamon]

That really is up to you. If you don't want to emphasize that the chord is borrowed, or just avoid dissonance (in Western ears), avoid that minor second, but depending on what your going for, and if E is a somewhat important note in your song, do what you want!

[jancivil]

do what you want is the whole of the law

Seriously, it could be juicy, it could just come off as incompetent.

[Rameses]

Try it out and listen to it, especially when doing it in regular intervals throughout the progression it really can sound cool.

[trtzbass]

Hello!

I think the best way to go about it is to look at it the other way around and make it so that the chord choice is determined by the melody.

Example:
Let's pretend we are writing in C major and the last note of the melody is E and it falls on a strong downbeat.
If you want to escape tonality to add some spice to that bar, choose a chord of whom E is a chord tone.
E can be:
Tonic of E (any quality)
Ninth of D
Minor third of C#
Eleventh of B
Raised eleventh of Bb
Fifth of A
Raised fifth of Ab
Sixth of G (major but actually sounds great on the minor quality)
Dominant seventh of F#
Seventh of F (The jazzy sounding choice)

Get my drift?
This ties to the other thread that discusses Enjoy The Silence. I believe this is what happened with that song too.

Have fun and let me know!

[jancivil]

It's hard for me to put this nicely, but a list of tertial objects where E is a member addressed the question not at all.

One can't really answer this wide-open basic dissonance question with some words, I'll show you someone doing pretty much this...

edit: somehow I failed to put this in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5BlfpFCTTc

It bothers some people, you can see it in comments. some diplog decided she's incompetent.

[trtzbass]

While "In C major" and "on a strong beat" LOOK like thought, this is actually just a list of things where E is a member of a tertial harmony. & discernable to all who can count to three.

Not sure I understand the comment

[jancivil]

While "In C major" and "on a strong beat" LOOK like thought, this is actually just a list of things where E is a member of a tertial harmony. & discernable to all who can count to three.

Not sure I understand the comment

It's a list of tertial objects where E is a member. IE: It's a chord member in chords built in thirds and here's a list. The OP seems to have wanted to see what people think about the dissonance. But here's a list of chords. Hey, the F^7 is jazzy! Seriously.

[trtzbass]

While "In C major" and "on a strong beat" LOOK like thought, this is actually just a list of things where E is a member of a tertial harmony. & discernable to all who can count to three.

Not sure I understand the comment

It's a list of tertial objects where E is a member. IE: It's a chord member in chords built in thirds and here's a list. The OP seems to have wanted to see what people think about the dissonance. But here's a list of chords. Hey, the F^7 is jazzy! Seriously.

The OP asked "if anyone has any tips, tricks, or compositional techniques please let me know".
What I described is the a simple reharmonisation technique that can give the OP a fresh perspective on how to borrow chords. Does it deserve a snide remark or do you address like that all the people you don't know?

[jancivil]

EDIT:

Does it deserve a snide remark or do you address like that all the people you don't know?

It deserved the remark I gave it, in my assessment and I'll explain that some more for your benefit.


The *question* was: Question about melody voicing when using a borrowed chord

And I made the observation that what you did, instead, was show a list of chords by thirds which contain E.

Both these statements are facts. That list answers that question does it? I don't agree. Actually it's so non-responsive one has no evidence you understood the question.

Do you always do this?

[jancivil]

I indicated I was reflecting on a nice way to say it. Then, you wanted an explanation.

I think the best way to go about it is to look at it the other way around and make it so that the chord choice is determined by the melody.

I think this is a very cut-and-dried thing you prefer to do. It isn't responsive to the question.
It appears to me you found someone do 'tips and tricks?' and now the thread is a platform for you to provide a list of chords with E in 'em.

And I think as a principle it's not any good. Every chord now has to fit a melody note per se?
That's dullsville. That's more paint-by-numbers than real thought. (And this is me self-censoring like crazy.)

I was impressed in the negative by the whole of your thrust here. I'm only so good at hiding it. And yeah, every time someone does that routine it is liable to annoy me. The major 7th as 'jazzy' was the final straw.

[ChamMusic]

Borrowed Chords (always called them modal interchanges) - quick few clarifications after reading the opening entry:

The chord can only be borrowed from a parallel key with the same tonic note - your example being C Major / C minor. (That's the official rule anyway...I do know of examples where it's broken)! :0)

If you are working in C Major, any chord from the parallel minor key can be borrowed, NOT just the tonic one...

Through many eras of classical music some of the most common ones were:

Diminished super tonic D–F–Ab
Half-diminished super tonic seventh D–F–Ab–C
Flat three Eb–G–Bb
Minor subdominant F–Ab–C
Flat six Ab–C–Eb
Fully diminished leading-tone seventh B–D–F–Ab

All used regularly by many composers to add a little harmonic variety to their pieces...ALL worth experimenting with!

Remember that this is NOT a modulation to the parallel key, but just a little flavour of it whilst remaining where you are in terms of tonality.

Should you use E against Eb etc...

Simply depends on the wider context of your piece:

If it's using more traditional tonal harmonies, then no you should not because it will sound inappropriate.

If you are experimenting with more dissonant harmonies then...maybe you should try it...many have over the years with great success.

[jancivil]

If it's using more traditional tonal harmonies, then no you should not because it will sound inappropriate.

If you are experimenting with more dissonant harmonies then...maybe you should try it...many have over the years with great success.

THIS, trying to convey it all thru mere words, is why I posted (initially I failed to out of haste or something) some music. In it, her harmonies are all triads. It's not dominant/tonic paradigm "tonality", it's doing E major to G major, for instance where E is home and she's either singing G# against the G or the other way 'round, I forget. Which is pretty much what the OP asks as far as I can tell. But before I KNOW that's the deal, I'd need to hear it.
But that's a folk song and not atonal, esoteric anything. I would not say dissonance for the sake of dissonance either.

[jancivil]

... borrowing Eb while in C major to form a C minor triad.

My question is this. Are there any precautions I should take while writing my melody over the borrowed chord?

"Classical Music" ie., the Common Practice Period (or Paradigm) rather requires one to engage in preparations for things which will stand out from the more banal practice.

It should be noted here with specificity (rather than such as my vague remark initially) that not all music is CPP. We have no indication your goal is to come across as doing a classical-type track.

So we really have to hear it, hear at least a few bars of it with your E over the Cm chord in the C major music in some context to know what to do here.


It might be statistically more prevalent in modern musics to find Eb over the C major chord.

Here's a reason for that which is not about being dissonant per se: Foxy Lady chord, Hendrix. F# A# E A as the I chord. So-called sharp nine chord (Gx, then, if you want to get technical but A is close enough for Rock 'n Roll), contains two thirds ostensibly which has been noted as giving both 'parts' of the blue third at once. I think that's a valid notion, myself.
(But if it isn't, it also is not the jazz #9, which implicates the V chord; it's the I chord of the tune.)

[Armagibbon]

Also I'm pretty new to "borrowing" notes from parallel keys, if anyone has any tips, tricks, or compositional techniques please let me know.

Thank you!

New to it? Yea only 1 way to fix that man... play your instrument.

Heres a pro tip... forget about theory and chord functions and all that shit. Just do scales and chords and ask some qs like... hey, wheres my melody goin? is it any good on its own? can I sing this shit? whats my pattern here? and then just play til you get a good sound. Theory aint even in the picture. See this is how it is... theorys for analysis... not creation. Dont try to look at your own shit b4 you pinch it off ahahaahha