What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

dfx Geometer bug

Official support for: smartelectronix.com

Moderator: Bram

KVRer
 
5 posts since 31 May, 2005

Postby PaPQH8; Tue May 31, 2005 6:02 am

Hi

I've noticed that there is a serious bug in Geometer regarding preset handling. For instance after loading this plugin, I select "Geometer LoFi" preset, then I pick for example "space chamber" preset, and when after that I come back to "Geometer LoFi" and it doesn't have the same settings as if loaded for the first time.

Propably for the same reason, most of the presets I've created are not properly loaded (I save a preset, but later when loaded, it doesn't appear to have the same settings I saved). This happens on windows in all hosts I've tried (energyXT, chainer, Tracktion).


PaPQ
KVRer
 
5 posts since 31 May, 2005

Postby PaPQH8; Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:55 pm

:scared:
KVRist
 
36 posts since 21 Sep, 2001, from Massachusetts, USA
 

Postby marc; Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:29 am

After loading the first preset the first time, did you modify the settings at all? If so, then that explains things. VST has this weird concept of "programs" rather than "presets" where they are supposed to retain any changes that you make. That's the way that VST plugins are supposed to work. I dislike this personally, for a number of reasons, but that's how it's supposed to be in VST world. If that's not what's happening, please describe in greater detail (and I'll try to remember to check this forum more often than quarterly).
[ Destroy FX - http://destroyfx.org/ ]
[ Smartelectronix - http://smartelectronix.com/ ]
KVRer
 
5 posts since 31 May, 2005

Postby PaPQH8; Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:06 pm

marc wrote:After loading the first preset the first time, did you modify the settings at all?


No, I didn't change anything.

marc wrote:If that's not what's happening, please describe in greater detail (and I'll try to remember to check this forum more often than quarterly).


Well, I don't know how to describe it in simpler form than I did before. Ok step by step how to reproduce it:

1. let's take some host (I choose chainer, but I noticed it also happens everywhere else - energyXT, traction, logic).
2. load geometer, and open gui
3. the default "geometer lo fi" preset is selected - notice it's settings
4. change the preset to "space chamber"
5. now get back to "geometer lo fi", and you will see that when loaded it won't have the same settings as in point 3. (actually it will propably have the same settings as "space chamber" - but if you will change the presets few times more, they will just have some random values).

Also what I observed with preset saving/loading:
Let's say I modified the "space chamber" preset and saved it in my host (once again reproducible in logic, tracktion, chainer and energyxt - haven't tried other hosts). If I now switch to "geometer lo-fi" and reload that preset, it won't have the settings that I saved. I found that to "get" that preset I also have to change the preset to "space chamber" after loading preset fxp file. So basicly geometer behaves like if it was saving not a preset, but a whole bank, and the user has to remember in which "preset slot" was his preset when it was saved. I hope it's a clearer description of the problem.

cheers and thanks for (speedy)[*] reply

P


[*] - :hihi: :D :wink:
KVRAF
 
2908 posts since 18 Jul, 2005

Postby robenestobenz; Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:14 pm

Yeah, I've been using Geometer today and had the same problem when trying to save a bank. I can save individual programs (.fxp) fine, and so worked around the problem this way-- but it's annoying to have to manually load each program instead of just having them all contained in one bank.

Other than that, great plugin. Never quite understand what I'm doing, but today I've blundered into several useful effects.
KVRAF
 
2049 posts since 10 Aug, 2004, from Valencia, Spain.
 

Postby origami; Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:18 pm

I've been using Geometer for more than a year now, used it in 3 or 4 of my songs, and yes you're right, it's a bit buggy. Presets change and sometimes they produce a noise quite uncomfortable. However, it's a great tool, perfect for experimental percussion.
KVRist
 
36 posts since 21 Sep, 2001, from Massachusetts, USA
 

Postby marc; Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am

Here's as much as I have deduced so far: The problem seems to happen when you switch to another program and then switch back to the same program that you had it set to immediately before. When you do that, the settings don't change back to the original program. They instead stay the same as the second program. I'm going to look into why this is happening, but I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to get to that, so in the meantime, the workaround is to switch to some 3rd program before switching right back to the program you previously had selected.
[ Destroy FX - http://destroyfx.org/ ]
[ Smartelectronix - http://smartelectronix.com/ ]
KVRer
 
5 posts since 31 May, 2005

Postby PaPQH8; Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:55 am

marc wrote:The problem seems to happen when you switch to another program and then switch back to the same program that you had it set to immediately before.


Basicly it happens when swithing between programs. It's very difficult to describe, but it's easy to observe when you start switching between built-in presets. You will see that after a few switches the settings for each preset won't look like in the beginning.

marc wrote:in the meantime, the workaround is to switch to some 3rd program before switching right back to the program you previously had selected.


It won't work, because as soon as the first preset is "screwed" you can't be sure what you'll get when you switch to other presets.

Like I said there's also a strange preset saving/loading behaviour. Example:

When Geometer is started I switch to a fifth preset
Let say I did a little modification and saved it as an .fxp (preset) file (using host functionality) for later use.
Now some time later I want to reuse this preset. I load Geometer and using host functionality load the preset file. To my surprise the settings are not the one I saved. "My" settings are stored in a fifth preset slot, so after loading preset file, I also have to change "active preset slot" (basicly change a preset number) to the one that was active during the save operation (in this case the fifth preset). Does this description make any sense :?: (sorry english is not my native language).

cheers

P
KVRist
 
36 posts since 21 Sep, 2001, from Massachusetts, USA
 

Postby marc; Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:18 am

Okay, I think I've solved the problem. Try this and let me know if it solves it for you...
[ Destroy FX - http://destroyfx.org/ ]
[ Smartelectronix - http://smartelectronix.com/ ]
KVRAF
 
2908 posts since 18 Jul, 2005

Postby robenestobenz; Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:12 pm

Problem is solved for me now, thank you very much.
KVRer
 
5 posts since 31 May, 2005

Postby PaPQH8; Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:05 am

marc wrote:Okay, I think I've solved the problem. Try this and let me know if it solves it for you...


Hey thanks!
Unfortunately it solves the first problem, but the second one persists :?

PaPQH8 wrote:When Geometer is started I switch to a fifth preset
Let say I did a little modification and saved it as an .fxp (preset) file (using host functionality) for later use.
Now some time later I want to reuse this preset. I load Geometer and using host functionality load the preset file. To my surprise the settings are not the one I saved. "My" settings are stored in a fifth preset slot, so after loading preset file, I also have to change "active preset slot" (basicly change a preset number) to the one that was active during the save operation (in this case the fifth preset).
KVRist
 
36 posts since 21 Sep, 2001, from Massachusetts, USA
 

Postby marc; Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:05 am

PaPQH8 wrote:Hey thanks!
Unfortunately it solves the first problem, but the second one persists :?


Ah yes, sorry, I forgot about that. However, I'm doubtful that this is a Geometer problem. Some background info:

VST defines 2 types of "preset" files: individual preset format (.fxp files) and bank format (.fxb files). The fxp is supposed to only store the settings from the currently selected program and the fxb is supposed to store the state of all of the programs. Not all VST hosts support either the saving or loading of both of these. Some only do one or the other. Sometimes it's not clear (for the user) which the host is doing.

But anyway, if it's supposed to be saving an fxp and actually does fxb data, then that's probably a host bug (though maybe that could occur from a plugin problem too). So that's one thing.

If you have saved an fxb file and then load it back into the plugin and the plugin does not switch back to the program that you had currently selected when you saved the bank, then that is neither a host problem or a plugin problem. That is due to the fact that the VST format for fxb files does not contain the currently selected program number. So there's no way to recall that information, given the way the format is defined. So you can't expect that to happen.

When you load an fxp file, it is supposed to be loaded into the currently selected program slot, even if that's not the same slot where you saved it from. If that is not happening, then it could be a host or plugin problem.

When the host saves a song or project document that contains an instance of a VST plugin, the host should contain fxb data for the current state of the plugin in that document. And when recalling that bank of settings for the plugin (when reloading the song/project document), it should also store in its document what was the actively selected program at the moment and restore that selection, too. If this does not happen, then it's probably a host bug.

What you're describing to me sounds like it falls under one or more of the above categories, but I'm not positive which. Please let me know what you think about that, and if this has clarified the issue at all.

Also, another way to see if the behavior is the host or the plugin is, when you use other VST plugins that have multiple program support, do you see the same results as with Geometer, or is this just Geometer?
[ Destroy FX - http://destroyfx.org/ ]
[ Smartelectronix - http://smartelectronix.com/ ]
KVRist
 
36 posts since 21 Sep, 2001, from Massachusetts, USA
 

Postby marc; Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:30 am

Okay, since I haven't heard any response to those last questions, I am assuming that that build I sent out fixed the problems and I have now released it officially: http://destroyfx.org/#geometer
[ Destroy FX - http://destroyfx.org/ ]
[ Smartelectronix - http://smartelectronix.com/ ]
KVRAF
 
1542 posts since 19 Mar, 2004, from indiana

Postby SWTrex; Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:51 am

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would add a bug I've come across here.

I am using geometer in the energyXT modular window. Every time I change presets, the audio input to geometer is immediately disconnected. It also happens every time I press the "Window Size" button. Everything seems fine if I reconnect it.

It does not seem to exhibit this behavior if used as a send in the sequencer.

No big deal...but curious.

SWTrex
"Sometimes I think of Abraham...
How one star he saw had been lit for me"

Moderator: Bram

Return to Smart Electronix