|
|||
Chuck E. Jesus wrote: nyquil_man wrote: tee boy wrote: The greater the dissonance, higher the tension and therefore greater resolution required. Its science really. How you impliment it is the art! Notice the popularity of the diminished chord in the 19th century. The diminished seven is essentially four potential leading tones; it can lead to any of them logically. A diminished chord built on F, G-sharp, B, and D could resolve to F-sharp Major, A Major, C Major, or E-flat Major or to any of their relative minors. That's what gives it such power; in itself, it's a weak, ambiguous chord. But it's in a position to go anywhere and do anything. Pile on a series of diminished chords one after another and the ambiguity increases. Notice the popularity of the diminished chord in the 19th century. The diminished seven is essentially four potential leading tones; it can lead to any of them logically. A diminished chord built on F, G-sharp, B, and D could resolve to F-sharp Major, A Major, C Major, or E-flat Major or to any of their relative minors. That's what gives it such power; in itself, it's a weak, ambiguous chord. But it's in a position to go anywhere and do anything. Pile on a series of diminished chords one after another and the ambiguity increases. now this is the kind of stuff i could use more of at KVR.... more talk of diminshed chords please...i grew up playing barre chords and as a middle aged person i'm just learning chord progressions and such...it's fun to learn this stuff... Ofcourse. And you also have the symetrical nature of the diminished and augmented triads! So chaining them together with their inversions can be great for building up tension. TB |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 29 Sep 2003 Member: #9424 Location: Sunny Staffordshire | ||
|
|||
tee boy wrote: Barf wrote: Some time ago there was an interesting item on BBC's 'Culture Show' (i think) about the guy who composed music for the Hitchcock movies and how he used specific chords to invoke moods
It was Bernhard Hermann. He used serial techniques in this score to make it highly dissonant, which ultimately added hugely to the tension through out the film. What you mean is the stabbing tone clusters that he used during the murder scene which contrasted with the deep bass and cello. The series was by Howard Goodhall. He's actually really good at explaining it I think. That series was great! TB Do you remember the name of that series? |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 02 Apr 2004 Member: #19618 | ||
|
|||
tee boy wrote: Chuck E. Jesus wrote: nyquil_man wrote: tee boy wrote: The greater the dissonance, higher the tension and therefore greater resolution required. Its science really. How you impliment it is the art! Notice the popularity of the diminished chord in the 19th century. The diminished seven is essentially four potential leading tones; it can lead to any of them logically. A diminished chord built on F, G-sharp, B, and D could resolve to F-sharp Major, A Major, C Major, or E-flat Major or to any of their relative minors. That's what gives it such power; in itself, it's a weak, ambiguous chord. But it's in a position to go anywhere and do anything. Pile on a series of diminished chords one after another and the ambiguity increases. Notice the popularity of the diminished chord in the 19th century. The diminished seven is essentially four potential leading tones; it can lead to any of them logically. A diminished chord built on F, G-sharp, B, and D could resolve to F-sharp Major, A Major, C Major, or E-flat Major or to any of their relative minors. That's what gives it such power; in itself, it's a weak, ambiguous chord. But it's in a position to go anywhere and do anything. Pile on a series of diminished chords one after another and the ambiguity increases. now this is the kind of stuff i could use more of at KVR.... more talk of diminshed chords please...i grew up playing barre chords and as a middle aged person i'm just learning chord progressions and such...it's fun to learn this stuff... Ofcourse. And you also have the symetrical nature of the diminished and augmented triads! So chaining them together with their inversions can be great for building up tension. TB i look on the internet for chords and scales and shit, at it really helps...as does learning songs that are available..but some of the ideas behind it all is invaluable, merely 'observing' doesn't always trigger that "yeah, i get it" thing.... ---- i got the moves like Wyman... |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 23 May 2006 Member: #108246 Location: in between a cornfield and a river | ||
|
|||
Barf wrote: tee boy wrote: Barf wrote: Some time ago there was an interesting item on BBC's 'Culture Show' (i think) about the guy who composed music for the Hitchcock movies and how he used specific chords to invoke moods
It was Bernhard Hermann. He used serial techniques in this score to make it highly dissonant, which ultimately added hugely to the tension through out the film. What you mean is the stabbing tone clusters that he used during the murder scene which contrasted with the deep bass and cello. The series was by Howard Goodhall. He's actually really good at explaining it I think. That series was great! TB Im sorry, I dont. But I know he went through a few popular modern bands and composers and showed how their music had descended in many ways from our Western traditions. He did the Beatles first, then he did Bernhard Hermann and some others. Great series. I'll try to find out for you. TB Do you remember the name of that series? |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 29 Sep 2003 Member: #9424 Location: Sunny Staffordshire | ||
|
|||
Chuck E. Jesus wrote: tee boy wrote: Chuck E. Jesus wrote: nyquil_man wrote: tee boy wrote: The greater the dissonance, higher the tension and therefore greater resolution required. Its science really. How you impliment it is the art! Notice the popularity of the diminished chord in the 19th century. The diminished seven is essentially four potential leading tones; it can lead to any of them logically. A diminished chord built on F, G-sharp, B, and D could resolve to F-sharp Major, A Major, C Major, or E-flat Major or to any of their relative minors. That's what gives it such power; in itself, it's a weak, ambiguous chord. But it's in a position to go anywhere and do anything. Pile on a series of diminished chords one after another and the ambiguity increases. Notice the popularity of the diminished chord in the 19th century. The diminished seven is essentially four potential leading tones; it can lead to any of them logically. A diminished chord built on F, G-sharp, B, and D could resolve to F-sharp Major, A Major, C Major, or E-flat Major or to any of their relative minors. That's what gives it such power; in itself, it's a weak, ambiguous chord. But it's in a position to go anywhere and do anything. Pile on a series of diminished chords one after another and the ambiguity increases. now this is the kind of stuff i could use more of at KVR.... more talk of diminshed chords please...i grew up playing barre chords and as a middle aged person i'm just learning chord progressions and such...it's fun to learn this stuff... Ofcourse. And you also have the symetrical nature of the diminished and augmented triads! So chaining them together with their inversions can be great for building up tension. TB i look on the internet for chords and scales and shit, at it really helps...as does learning songs that are available..but some of the ideas behind it all is invaluable, merely 'observing' doesn't always trigger that "yeah, i get it" thing.... You're so right. But then we have to battle between over rationalising our music. I find this a particularly big problem - if I try to write music on paper using what knowledge of have as the basic for creation I often get less pleasing results than when I let chance and my ear dictate the music decisions. I guess the truely great composers are the ones who can harness their creative imagination using their rational mind. That would be amazing! TB |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 29 Sep 2003 Member: #9424 Location: Sunny Staffordshire | ||
|
|||
Somehow, when I listen to Elton John or Randy Newman for example, I can't help thinking they don't give a  about theoretical construction of a song.
Seems like they got a nice melody and lyrics, sit down at the piano and try to accompany that melody. That way they are coming up with all those beautiful, unusual chord sequences ... I might be totally wrong. susiwong |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Member: #14667 | ||
|
|||
susiwong wrote: Somehow, when I listen to Elton John or Randy Newman for example, I can't help thinking they don't give a
about theoretical construction of a song.
Seems like they got a nice melody and lyrics, sit down at the piano and try to accompany that melody. That way they are coming up with all those beautiful, unusual chord sequences ... I might be totally wrong. susiwong I don't know about Randy Newman but I did hear an interview with Elton John once where he explained his working method. He sits at a piano messing about with chord progressions until something works for him and builds the melody from there. A method he described as "tin-pan alley style". ---- 
Now with improved MIDI jitter! |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 12 Mar 2002 Member: #2095 Location: UK | ||
|
|||
Quote: I don't know about Randy Newman but I did hear an interview with Elton John once where he explained his working method. He sits at a piano messing about with chord progressions until something works for him and builds the melody from there. A method he described as "tin-pan alley style".
That's what I get for thinking  ...
Very unusual mind if that's true, and I don't doubt what you said, nuffink. 
Cheers, susiwong |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Member: #14667 | ||
|
|||
Elton John actually studied music very seriously before he started as a composer. I remember another interview where he said that he envied guitarists, as they could put together these really simple chord sequences that he found it really hard to come up with on the piano. |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Member: #76094 Location: In transit | ||
|
|||
bobtheburninator wrote: Bonteburg wrote: off the top of my head and IMHO ...
semitone interval: threat, suspense, looming desaster 5th: pomp, proud, 'loud and clear' major: complacent, satisfied, optimistic minor: sad 9th: open, soaring, airy minor 9: very sad, tragic, hopeless minor 7: airy, melancholy, 'Not quite' sad minor 6: weird, suspense, secret agent film-ish 7th: bluesy major 7: sweet, kitsch, happy, also 'jazzy' 6th: playful, tongue-in-cheek, 'jazzy' minor 7th and major in one chord: funky coolness Marco well, really, those chords can mean anything, depending on what came before it. example, the chord progression to pachbels canon isnt sad at all, though it has many minor chords in it Yeah well - what I meant was what they conjure up in me and on their own. I totally agree with you on progressions, G mnor 7 sounds dead cool next to C7 for instance and not melancholy a all. Many minor chords in a row sound menacing to me (rather than sad). etc. Marco |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 24 Mar 2002 Member: #2258 Location: A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany | ||
|
|||
major 7 however invariably sounds like the aural equivalent of candyfloss.
 ---- An idea whose time has come http://www.incomesecurityforall.org http://www.grundeinkommen-ist-waehlbar.de/ |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 24 Mar 2002 Member: #2258 Location: A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany | ||
|
|||
robojam wrote: Elton John actually studied music very seriously before he started as a composer. I remember another interview where he said that he envied guitarists, as they could put together these really simple chord sequences that he found it really hard to come up with on the piano.
For me, writing on the guitar as opposed to writing at the piano is a completely different experience. Of course, you can play pretty much any chord on the guitar if you're knowledgeable enough. But you're more likely to go to certain chords simply because they're easier to play. I do find that the songs I write at the guitar are less harmonically complex. I can understand why Elton John would envy guitarists, but I'm sure a lot of guitarists envy pianists. Writing at the piano, for me at least, is a bit more liberating; some things feel "off limits" at the guitar but not at the piano. |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Member: #56540 | ||
|
|||
Sounds like pianist envy.
(sorry, had to be done) ----  |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Member: #6777 Location: -on the outside looking in | ||
|
|||
In black metal every chord change goes from evil to evil.  ---- Excuse all the blood. |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Member: #29783 | ||
|
|||
susiwong wrote: Somehow, when I listen to Elton John or Randy Newman for example, I can't help thinking they don't give a :-o about theoretical construction of a song.
Seems like they got a nice melody and lyrics, sit down at the piano and try to accompany that melody. That way they are coming up with all those beautiful, unusual chord sequences ... I might be totally wrong. susiwong I think there's something to be said for instinct. Both Newman and John are trained musicians (Newman comes from a family of film composers and John studied music as a young man) who've been playing their whole lives. When you have the knowledge and experience they have, you have a pretty good innate understanding of what works and what doesn't. |
|||
| ^ | Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Member: #56540 |
| KVR Forum Index » Music Theory | All times are GMT - 8 Hours |
|
Printable version |
Disclaimer: All communications made available as part of this forum and any opinions, advice, statements, views or other information expressed in this forum are solely provided by, and the responsibility of, the person posting such communication and not of kvraudio.com (unless kvraudio.com is specifically identified as the author of the communication).
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
