Login / Register  0 items | $0.00 New#KVRDeals

Redline Monitor - how does it work?

mystran
KVRAF
 
4611 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland

Postby mystran; Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:12 pm

dj! (112dB) wrote:I don't think you can properly check the frequency response of a M/S processor using stereo white noise.


I'd personally propose (at least for this particular case) to define the combined amplitude response (a function of input pan) as the L2 norm of the amplitude responses of the output channels. The phases won't interact, and amplitude summing works the same as what one would get with normal circular panning law, and frequency dependent stereo width control doesn't affect the results (assuming it preserves the combined level in the L2 sense).

With such a definition it's meaningful then to measure frequency response with pan-potted mono white noise (with pan position determining which direction we want to measure... obviously one can sweep over the stereo field and graph frequency response as a function of direction or whatever).

As for stereo white noise directly, especially in the case of headphone listening where phase-interactions don't exist? At least I can't come up with a definition of stereo frequency response that would make sense for such measurements.
Image <- plugins | forum
dj! (112dB)
KVRist
 
201 posts since 22 Jan, 2009, from the Netherlands

Postby dj! (112dB); Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:37 am

karhu wrote:big fat kudos to 112db! (having so nice memories from Utrecht! :))


Good to hear that! And hey... what is your relationship to Utrecht, if I may ask? It's not exactly the capital of Europe so I'm curious what brought you out to these backwoods. ;)

minx wrote:and nothing less than Lavazza will do


And here I was thinking I'm the only one to prefer Lavazza over Illy. Too bad they don't do sponsors! Or... do they??

tommy_d wrote:It's crashed Reaper a couple of times, though.


I haven't been able to reproduce that here, but if anybody is experiencing the same and would be so kind to send me a crash report--just click OK when after a crash Redline Monitor offers to send the report back to us--that'd be great.

fridtjof wrote:Please implement more mixing features like a radio or ipod earplugs switch. This would be one of the most useful features ever.


Would you care to elaborate on what exactly you're thinking of? Perhaps I'm missing something, perhaps it's the same lack of Lavazza (you wouldn't believe the stuff they pass for coffee here in Holland), but I'm not sure what you're hinting at. Would be interested to hear it though. 8)

And last but not least:
mystran wrote:As for stereo white noise directly, especially in the case of headphone listening where phase-interactions don't exist? At least I can't come up with a definition of stereo frequency response that would make sense for such measurements.


It'd be fun to run a poll on how many people here outside the DSP forum have a clue what you're talking about :) but yes, you're right. Stereo white noise causes phase interference between the L/R channels, which leads to the warped frequency plot. For meaningful results you'd have to use a signal where the L and R channels are correlated--such as the aforementioned sine sweep.

-- dj!
Image
Morgana | Redline Series | Big Blue Series
fceramic
KVRian
 
1277 posts since 1 Jun, 2008

Postby fceramic; Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:41 am

fridtjof wrote:Please implement more mixing features like a radio or ipod earplugs switch. This would be one of the most useful features ever.


Would you care to elaborate on what exactly you're thinking of? Perhaps I'm missing something, perhaps it's the same lack of Lavazza (you wouldn't believe the stuff they pass for coffee here in Holland), but I'm not sure what you're hinting at. Would be interested to hear it though. 8)



-- dj!


I am talking about a little switch that emulates how the output would sound through a car radio or cheap earplugs. Since you call it Redline Monitor it would fit the name to emulate more than just monitor speakers. Of course I could always just buy some shitty speakers and plug in my ipod earplugs, but clicking a button would be more handy (and more fun!). When mixing it is always good to hear how the output's perceived loudness and body sound through speakers with a narrow frequency range like car stereo or cheap earplugs, mainly because it helps you mix the psychoacoustic of the bass and treble.
Pule
KVRist
 
38 posts since 27 Jan, 2009

Postby Pule; Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:52 am

Last edited by Pule on Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:12 am, edited 4 times in total.
dj! (112dB)
KVRist
 
201 posts since 22 Jan, 2009, from the Netherlands

Postby dj! (112dB); Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:53 am

fridtjof wrote:I am talking about a little switch that emulates how the output would sound through a car radio or cheap earplugs. Since you call it Redline Monitor it would fit the name to emulate more than just monitor speakers. Of course I could always just buy some shitty speakers and plug in my ipod earplugs, but clicking a button would be more handy (and more fun!). When mixing it is always good to hear how the output's perceived loudness and body sound through speakers with a narrow frequency range like car stereo or cheap earplugs, mainly because it helps you mix the psychoacoustic of the bass and treble.


Definitely an interesting (not to mention useful) idea, and definitely just made it to my features wishlist.

Thanks!

-- dj!
Image
Morgana | Redline Series | Big Blue Series
tommy_d
KVRian
 
581 posts since 9 Jul, 2004

Postby tommy_d; Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:13 am

dj! (112dB) wrote:
fridtjof wrote:I am talking about a little switch that emulates how the output would sound through a car radio or cheap earplugs. Since you call it Redline Monitor it would fit the name to emulate more than just monitor speakers. Of course I could always just buy some shitty speakers and plug in my ipod earplugs, but clicking a button would be more handy (and more fun!). When mixing it is always good to hear how the output's perceived loudness and body sound through speakers with a narrow frequency range like car stereo or cheap earplugs, mainly because it helps you mix the psychoacoustic of the bass and treble.


Definitely an interesting (not to mention useful) idea, and definitely just made it to my features wishlist.

Thanks!

-- dj!

Can we also have "kid next to you in bus queue playing lo-res mp3 FAR TO LOUD through crappy speaker on mobile phone"? :hihi:
fceramic
KVRian
 
1277 posts since 1 Jun, 2008

Postby fceramic; Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:44 am



I'm on mac.

@dj

Ya that would make this plugin an essential one for both studio professionals and "bedroom" headphoners.:lol:
User avatar
pekadan
KVRian
 
1185 posts since 6 Nov, 2002, from where moose mate, mate

Postby pekadan; Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:08 am

fridtjof wrote:
fridtjof wrote:Please implement more mixing features like a radio or ipod earplugs switch. This would be one of the most useful features ever.


Would you care to elaborate on what exactly you're thinking of? Perhaps I'm missing something, perhaps it's the same lack of Lavazza (you wouldn't believe the stuff they pass for coffee here in Holland), but I'm not sure what you're hinting at. Would be interested to hear it though. 8)



-- dj!


I am talking about a little switch that emulates how the output would sound through a car radio or cheap earplugs. Since you call it Redline Monitor it would fit the name to emulate more than just monitor speakers. Of course I could always just buy some shitty speakers and plug in my ipod earplugs, but clicking a button would be more handy (and more fun!). When mixing it is always good to hear how the output's perceived loudness and body sound through speakers with a narrow frequency range like car stereo or cheap earplugs, mainly because it helps you mix the psychoacoustic of the bass and treble.

Oh yes! That'd be excellent!! :hyper:
mcraze
KVRist
 
32 posts since 6 Feb, 2009

Postby mcraze; Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:29 pm

I've noticed some strange things with Redline Monitor.
Even with soundstage at 90 degrees it forces too much sound to the center and also kills the sound that is extremely stereo panned.

F.e. for the test I was using William Orbit - Barber's Adagio For Strings (Ferry Corsten Remix) in a lossless quality of course - if you remember there are strings playing in the background and due to how they are panned - it gives an impression as if they are playing behind you. Well with Redline Monitor they are absolutely not audible together with delay effect on the main lead.
The same does not happen with HDPHX in the same headphones nor does the track sounds like that on hi-fi stereo speakers.

I also tried Redline Monitor in Cubase with several of my projects and so far I get the same results - most of the sound (even heavily stereo-panned) is being forced to the center, while extremely stereo-panned sound can't be heard at all.
dj! (112dB)
KVRist
 
201 posts since 22 Jan, 2009, from the Netherlands

Postby dj! (112dB); Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:38 am

Did you try adjusting the Center Level towards -3dB? It's there precisely to compensate for the slight dominance of the stereo center with the effect engaged.

-- dj!
Image
Morgana | Redline Series | Big Blue Series
mcraze
KVRist
 
32 posts since 6 Feb, 2009

Postby mcraze; Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:15 am

I've managed to find where the problem was. When I disabled the "distance" setting everything got to normal more or less.
minx
KVRist
 
316 posts since 25 Sep, 2003, from London

Postby minx; Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:39 am

The demo is working well for me

I spent a bit of time setting it up to reflect my Monitors and did some Mixes using some top of the range grado cans.The mixes translated very very well and only needed a few tweaks when on the monitors.


Good job on this
Colonel Flashback
KVRian
 
786 posts since 12 Feb, 2005, from Green Man Inn

Postby Colonel Flashback; Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:04 am

I compose 90% on headphones - levels and dynamics processing used to be all over the place. Just as the prior poster said my headphones mixes now translate quite well when listening on monitors. Great job 112db. :shock:

Birthday's still a few months away, damn it...And all those Live goodies... :help:
lydia
KVRist
 
49 posts since 1 Feb, 2009

Postby lydia; Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:14 pm

Question: can you use this as an standalone app, or in other words, use it to listen to your music? So you can somehow "train" your ears by listening to your favourite music with the "monitor settings" so when you get into the mix you have references from pro recordings. Does that make sense?

thanks
dj! (112dB)
KVRist
 
201 posts since 22 Jan, 2009, from the Netherlands

Postby dj! (112dB); Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:44 am

The idea by itself makes a lot of sense--getting your ears used to RM is as essential as listening to new nearfield monitors to get to know their particular sound. But even if it were available as a standalone (which it isn't) how would you listen to music with it? Wouldn't you need a media player to play the music in the first place?

That said, foobar2000 supports VST plugins (via a wrapper) and Redline Monitor runs fine in that, so that would be one way to achieve this. And undoubtedly there are other media players that support either VST or AU.

Take care,

-- dj!
Image
Morgana | Redline Series | Big Blue Series
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Effects