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bstageboss
KVRist
 
289 posts since 11 Sep, 2004, from just a little to the left

Postby bstageboss; Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:50 pm

zorniko wrote:What do you think about this?

Image


Looks pretty, but it's just adding a PWM square on top of a static sawtooth. It probably sounds nice and full, but it's not emulating the D series. The way Roland did theirs was different, like a short saw and a long saw alternating. Much as I love Synth 1 (which is what I assume zorniko used for the pics), the Synthix and the Linplugs will get you closer to the original waveforms.

STV

(It's also different from the Alpha Juno style PWM Saw. Roland sure did some funky stuff with their oscillators back in the day...)
zorniko
KVRist
 
466 posts since 31 Jan, 2010

Postby zorniko; Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:43 am

Sendy wrote:vary the slope to morph into a triangle and then ramp waveform
Sendy wrote:one or two moving holes in the saw's shape
Sendy wrote:amplitude modulating a sawtooth with a variable pulse wave 0 or 1 octaves higher
Sendy wrote:Still there are other methods
Sendy wrote:oatmeal and several other synths use the antiphase method of PWM, which means when you do PWM on a Sawtooth, you're actually ending up with a normal variable pulse wave
bstageboss wrote:What you would hear when you changed the pulsewith parameter was that all of a sudden a lower octave would creep in. At very small settings the oscillator sounded a bit like it there were two sawtooth waves an octave apart. At higher settings you got a bright (even alias-y) sawtooth approximation that was now an octave lower.
bstageboss wrote:A bright asymmetrical sawtooth wave that drops an octave when modulation is not zero
bstageboss wrote:Looks pretty, but it's just adding a PWM square on top of a static sawtooth. It probably sounds nice and full, but it's not emulating the D series.
bstageboss wrote:It's also different from the Alpha Juno style PWM Saw.


:phew: :clap: :)

Can you guys post some examples/images/mp3s?
Too many different definitions...
The simple question is: CAN we get the waveshapes from Roland's picture?
Or that picture is not precise (just approx. info)?
------
I tried to show that even simple "adding a PWM square on top of a static sawtooth" IMHO can be close :?: There are other ways, of course. Maybe you can suggest something that will be close enough on Synth1? I have some ways, but I'd like to hear your oppinion also.
bstageboss
KVRist
 
289 posts since 11 Sep, 2004, from just a little to the left

Postby bstageboss; Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:16 pm

zorniko wrote:
Can you guys post some examples/images/mp3s?
Too many different definitions...
The simple question is: CAN we get the waveshapes from Roland's picture?
Or that picture is not precise (just approx. info)?
------
I tried to show that even simple "adding a PWM square on top of a static sawtooth" IMHO can be close :?: There are other ways, of course. Maybe you can suggest something that will be close enough on Synth1? I have some ways, but I'd like to hear your oppinion also.


Well, I've got an Alpha Juno, a D-50, Linplug Alpha and I just bought Synthix, so I'll see about posting some sound examples tomorrow. Maybe even some pics of waveforms, if you're interested.

I'm getting kind of curious myself now...

STV
zorniko
KVRist
 
466 posts since 31 Jan, 2010

Postby zorniko; Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:24 pm

bstageboss wrote:Well, I've got an Alpha Juno, a D-50, Linplug Alpha and I just bought Synthix, so I'll see about posting some sound examples tomorrow. Maybe even some pics of waveforms, if you're interested.

I'm getting kind of curious myself now...

STV


Looking forward to that, thank you in advance bstageboss! Pics would be nice, too! :D
BASSDRIVE
KVRian
 
965 posts since 13 Jun, 2003, from USA

Postby BASSDRIVE; Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:41 pm

I don't know, but that "JP6K" sounds very good to my ears. The PHATness of it stands out compared to other synths IMO and very easy to work with. I'm not sure if it's a solid emulation or not, but nonetheless it sounds great IMO.

http://www.adamszabo.com/jp6k/
adamtrance
KVRian
 
654 posts since 29 Sep, 2004

Postby adamtrance; Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:31 am

Thank you for mentioning my synth, but the original poster wanted PWM and not super saw. I am still curious how this saw-pwm sounds like so if you post some examples we can help better :)
kv331
KVRAF
 
5423 posts since 14 Nov, 2006, from Ankara, Turkey

Postby kv331; Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:35 am

Muzik 4 Machines wrote:the original pwm saw looks like this
edit: oopssie, wrong image
here's the good one
Image


Based on this graph, this is easily done in SynthMaster: Put a saw osc on Osc1, modulate its amplitude (Ring Mod) with Mod1, which is Pulse an octave higher than Osc1.
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EepBeepPeep
KVRer
 
22 posts since 9 Jul, 2010

Postby EepBeepPeep; Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:20 am

zorniko wrote::phew: :clap: :)

Can you guys post some examples/images/mp3s?
Too many different definitions...
The simple question is: CAN we get the waveshapes from Roland's picture?
Or that picture is not precise (just approx. info)?
------

adamtrance wrote:I am still curious how this saw-pwm sounds like so if you post some examples we can help better :)


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8715357/D10%20SAW%20PWM.wav
Here is how it sounds straight out the box (with the internal reverb switched off) from d110.
zorniko
KVRist
 
466 posts since 31 Jan, 2010

Postby zorniko; Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:57 am

EepBeepPeep wrote:Here is how it sounds straight out the box (with the internal reverb switched off) from d110.

Thanks EBP!
I made some pics from that file, just as a reference:

Image

These are the waveshapes of three different notes. It seems that the SAW PWM is changing drastically with the pitch?! Or you've moved the knob during recording?
EepBeepPeep
KVRer
 
22 posts since 9 Jul, 2010

Postby EepBeepPeep; Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:28 am

zorniko wrote:
EepBeepPeep wrote:Here is how it sounds straight out the box (with the internal reverb switched off) from d110.

Thanks EBP!
I made some pics from that file, just as a reference:

Image

These are the waveshapes of three different notes. It seems that the SAW PWM is changing drastically with the pitch?! Or you've moved the knob during recording?

Absolutely 100% no knob moving. The keyboard I used for these has/had no mod wheel on it.

The pictures are very useful, thank you for posting them.
zorniko
KVRist
 
466 posts since 31 Jan, 2010

Postby zorniko; Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:14 am

This is what I made on Synth1 a few minutes ago. I did not tried to mimic your wave 100%, but you can certainly hear what can be done with Osc1 saw, Osc2 pulse, ring mod, and p/w (I autom. it to move from 0 to 127, didn't used LFOs). Sorry if the wave is too long...

And of course, I can make more variations/demos if needed :)
Maybe to try to mimic that wave...

Anyway, tell me what you think about this one:
EDIT: now stereo mp3
https://sites.google.com/site/zornikokvr/home/pwmsy1ex1.mp3
Last edited by zorniko on Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
cytospur
KVRian
 
1017 posts since 25 Jun, 2002, from London, UK

Postby cytospur; Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:30 am

Try ring modulating a variable width pulse with either a sine (or triangle wave both set to the same frequency.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
DUNE2, Serum, Blofeld and compatibles wavetables: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
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Urs
u-he
 
22224 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:48 am

Here's the alpha-Juno type Saw-PWM for my free Zebralette synth (also works in Zebra of course):

http://www.u-he.com/downloads/Zebra/UH_ ... wm.h2p.zip

It's important for doing Roland-style PWM that they only modulate between 50% and 100% but never bipolar (e.g. 0% - 100%). Thus Roland PWM always sounds somewhat softer than on other synths. My patch does 50% to 100%, but one can adjust "Warp" to 5.00 to do 0% till 50% (sounds different!).

Very curious about the D-series Saw-PWM... might have to finally get that D550 going...
cytospur
KVRian
 
1017 posts since 25 Jun, 2002, from London, UK

Postby cytospur; Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:04 am

I think the D-series saw PWM is different from the alpha-Juno series, though I'll be damned if I can find any mention of what waves are employed anywhere in the D110 manual.

A big part of the D110 sound is the ability to ring or amplitude modulate two partials with one another, which is why I suggested RM with a modulated pulse and a sine or triangle because that gives you something that looks and sounds something like a PWM saw.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
DUNE2, Serum, Blofeld and compatibles wavetables: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
cytospur
KVRian
 
1017 posts since 25 Jun, 2002, from London, UK

Postby cytospur; Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:25 am

This is what I get with DUNE by ring modulating a triangle wave with a 50% pulse wave with it's width modulated by +/-40% at 1Hz.

http://www.box.net/shared/zsgp24u0d5k7kxyud5ol

Edit: just realised I had a saturation plugin (at it's lowest setting) on the master channel so the sound is slightly duller than without. It doesn't change the overall idea though :oops:
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
DUNE2, Serum, Blofeld and compatibles wavetables: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
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