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Cubase CC data in MIDI part --> VSTi automation parameter?

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4damind
KVRAF
 
3635 posts since 17 Aug, 2004, from Berlin, Germany

Postby 4damind; Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:38 am

If I understand this correctly, you will use a midi controller value to use it for automation?

There is a way with the midi transformer plug-in. This converts any midi event to a controller event and the CC can then be automated.
I use this sometimes to automate pitch-bend with a controller-track instead of using control values inside the midi-editor.
Frank Arnold Musician & IT Freelancer

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TabSel
KVRist
 
446 posts since 13 Mar, 2002

Postby TabSel; Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:12 am

I guess it's about controlling VST parameters with MIDI cc and vice versa.

Here is a step by step tutorial:

1) Download and install LoopMIDI (you'll need a MIDI loopback Device)
2) create two ports: "Cubase Project GR Out" and "Cubase Project GR In"

3) In Cubase create a Folder track "Project GR" with 16 MIDI tracks as the very first tracks in the project, name the them "GR Ch#01", "GR Ch#02"...
4) Set Input and Output of these channels to "unconnected" and solo exclude them, so they are always active, never muted.

5) create a new generic remote device with MIDI Input "Cubase Project GR In" and MIDI Output "Cubase Project GR Out"
6) create 8 control elements "Project GR01 1" - 8, receiving/transmitting MIDI on Channel #1, use CC# numbers to your liking (I use CC#20-27)
7) assign the 8 control elements to device "Mixer", channel "GR Ch#01", value "quickCOntrols:QuickControl1" - 8, non-automated

8) do this for each of your 16 MIDI tracks...

result: whenever you send MIDI out of "Cubase Project GR In", your CC#x data on MIDI channel #ch will drive QuickConrol#y of MIDI track "GR Ch#ch"

This is a one time setup.

Now, what ever VST automation parameter I want to control with MIDI cc# data, I setup a free QuickControl of one of my GR Ch#xx tracks.
I even can record VST parameters as MIDI cc# this way.
I can rearrange tracks as I like (after the first 16 MIDI tracks), the QuickControl assignemnt won't change...

Now, I can use VST Expression MIDI cc# to drive VST Parameters (and edit them in context with MIDI notes...
yesandknow
KVRist
 
39 posts since 1 Jul, 2010

Postby yesandknow; Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:37 am

TabSel wrote:I guess it's about controlling VST parameters with MIDI cc and vice versa.

Here is a step by step tutorial:

1) Download and install LoopMIDI (you'll need a MIDI loopback Device)
2) create two ports: "Cubase Project GR Out" and "Cubase Project GR In"

3) In Cubase create a Folder track "Project GR" with 16 MIDI tracks as the very first tracks in the project, name the them "GR Ch#01", "GR Ch#02"...
4) Set Input and Output of these channels to "unconnected" and solo exclude them, so they are always active, never muted.

5) create a new generic remote device with MIDI Input "Cubase Project GR In" and MIDI Output "Cubase Project GR Out"
6) create 8 control elements "Project GR01 1" - 8, receiving/transmitting MIDI on Channel #1, use CC# numbers to your liking (I use CC#20-27)
7) assign the 8 control elements to device "Mixer", channel "GR Ch#01", value "quickCOntrols:QuickControl1" - 8, non-automated

8) do this for each of your 16 MIDI tracks...

result: whenever you send MIDI out of "Cubase Project GR In", your CC#x data on MIDI channel #ch will drive QuickConrol#y of MIDI track "GR Ch#ch"

This is a one time setup.

Now, what ever VST automation parameter I want to control with MIDI cc# data, I setup a free QuickControl of one of my GR Ch#xx tracks.
I even can record VST parameters as MIDI cc# this way.
I can rearrange tracks as I like (after the first 16 MIDI tracks), the QuickControl assignemnt won't change...

Now, I can use VST Expression MIDI cc# to drive VST Parameters (and edit them in context with MIDI notes...


cheers! i love how logical this is. however, i could _almost_ follow the tutorial. :-)

let's say i want to drive the automation of a vst eq's 'gain' parameter. this vst eq is inserted on an audio track below the 16 dummy MIDI tracks. i can set up a quick control on the dummy MIDI track ("...I setup a free QuickControl of one of my GR Ch#xx tracks..."), but this will only alow me to QuickControl-assign to a parameter of the MIDI track itself. how would i route this controller data to the actual 'gain' parameter of the EQ vst plugin? sorry, this is probably a misunderstanding on my part.
yesandknow
KVRist
 
39 posts since 1 Jul, 2010

Postby yesandknow; Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:50 am

yesandknow wrote:
TabSel wrote:I guess it's about controlling VST parameters with MIDI cc and vice versa.

Here is a step by step tutorial:

1) Download and install LoopMIDI (you'll need a MIDI loopback Device)
2) create two ports: "Cubase Project GR Out" and "Cubase Project GR In"

3) In Cubase create a Folder track "Project GR" with 16 MIDI tracks as the very first tracks in the project, name the them "GR Ch#01", "GR Ch#02"...
4) Set Input and Output of these channels to "unconnected" and solo exclude them, so they are always active, never muted.

5) create a new generic remote device with MIDI Input "Cubase Project GR In" and MIDI Output "Cubase Project GR Out"
6) create 8 control elements "Project GR01 1" - 8, receiving/transmitting MIDI on Channel #1, use CC# numbers to your liking (I use CC#20-27)
7) assign the 8 control elements to device "Mixer", channel "GR Ch#01", value "quickCOntrols:QuickControl1" - 8, non-automated

8) do this for each of your 16 MIDI tracks...

result: whenever you send MIDI out of "Cubase Project GR In", your CC#x data on MIDI channel #ch will drive QuickConrol#y of MIDI track "GR Ch#ch"

This is a one time setup.

Now, what ever VST automation parameter I want to control with MIDI cc# data, I setup a free QuickControl of one of my GR Ch#xx tracks.
I even can record VST parameters as MIDI cc# this way.
I can rearrange tracks as I like (after the first 16 MIDI tracks), the QuickControl assignemnt won't change...

Now, I can use VST Expression MIDI cc# to drive VST Parameters (and edit them in context with MIDI notes...


cheers! i love how logical this is. however, i could _almost_ follow the tutorial. :-)

let's say i want to drive the automation of a vst eq's 'gain' parameter. this vst eq is inserted on an audio track below the 16 dummy MIDI tracks. i can set up a quick control on the dummy MIDI track ("...I setup a free QuickControl of one of my GR Ch#xx tracks..."), but this will only alow me to QuickControl-assign to a parameter of the MIDI track itself. how would i route this controller data to the actual 'gain' parameter of the EQ vst plugin? sorry, this is probably a misunderstanding on my part.


actually i think i got it to work! however, it only seems to work when the 'audio track' (as described in the above situation) is currently selected (ie. quickcontrols assignments only work when that track is selected). is there a way to overcome this, or what am i (probably) doing wrong? :-)
TabSel
KVRist
 
446 posts since 13 Mar, 2002

Postby TabSel; Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:52 am

Hold <ctrl> while clicking a qc slot and rtfm *g*

Maybe learn works as well in 6?
TabSel
KVRist
 
446 posts since 13 Mar, 2002

Postby TabSel; Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:55 am

Do NOT setup the quick control device, but a generic remote device...
yesandknow
KVRist
 
39 posts since 1 Jul, 2010

Postby yesandknow; Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:13 pm

TabSel wrote:Hold <ctrl> while clicking a qc slot and rtfm *g*

Maybe learn works as well in 6?


not sure, i'm on 5. the help is greatly appreciated in any case!
yesandknow
KVRist
 
39 posts since 1 Jul, 2010

Postby yesandknow; Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:36 pm

TabSel wrote:Hold <ctrl> while clicking a qc slot and rtfm *g*


yes, incredible!

and indeed rtfm to me. another one of those 'hidden features'.

kudos to you, you're a legend sir.

also i wish steinberg took notice and brought the MIDI mapping features of cubendo to 21st century. this is ridonculous.

edit: now i just wish the effect with rapid CC data change wasn't dependant on the currently selected buffer size of your audio interface (what i mean is, the results of this technique change slightly based on how responsive the host is with the current buffer-size; at least that's how it behaves with midiYOKE, may try the loopback device you suggested instead and see whether it helps!)
Breeze
KVRAF
 
1751 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:26 am

I actually found this thread after spending over an hour figuring out how to do this for myself in N5.

My biggest problem with this technique is that as long as MIDI needs to be looped back live you can't do an offline render without rendering the affected tracks first.

Has anything changed with regards to this in C7/N6?

Blue Cat as a software called "Remote Control" that claims to "transform automation to MIDI and MIDI to automation" which sounds like just what we need, though its other functionality is irrelevant to this problem. I've posted on that forum to see about it too.
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9767 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:47 am

TabSel wrote:which is fine, but has nothing to to with sequencing a VST Plugin Parameter with MIDI cc-Data using a MIDI track instead of Automation Data.
that's right, and one the main things in my post is a result of a failure to read.

Cubase makes a definite distinction between midi control and automation of the instrument, which is of course after the fact of the MIDI data sent. BUT, depending on the instrument's design it can be the same thing. EG: VE Pro can, via eg., Kore Controller, learn a midi controller that is then exposed to Cubase as a parameter for automation.

Cubase itself as the means to this end, I don't know. It's not transparent, there doesn't appear to be any such mapping per se. I think I would introduce a control surface to achieve this.
Breeze
KVRAF
 
1751 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:02 pm

I found a working solution proposed on another thread by ericj23: use a subhost. I set up Bidule to host the VST and then used Bidule's features to map an incoming CC to a parameter. It works fine using an intermediary MIDI track to route the output of one to the input of the other and it's all internal to the project; no delays and sync works perfectly.

Steinberg should really implement this kind of direct CC-to-parameter mapping.
User avatar
SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
3206 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from Prattville, AL

Postby SJ_Digriz; Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:17 pm

Breeze wrote:Steinberg should really implement this kind of direct CC-to-parameter mapping.

They purposefully removed this feature several years ago to the consternation of the user base.
I'm not insane. I'm reality challenged.
User avatar
4damind
KVRAF
 
3635 posts since 17 Aug, 2004, from Berlin, Germany

Postby 4damind; Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:25 pm

I use the Midi transformer (Cubase midi plugin) for such stuff, eg. to map pitchbend to a own CC number so it can be automated (instead of using it as midi controller event in the midi part).
Frank Arnold Musician & IT Freelancer

Visit me on:
Facebook | Soundcloud | 4damind.com
Breeze
KVRAF
 
1751 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:27 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:They purposefully removed this feature several years ago to the consternation of the user base.

Really? Do you remember what versions still had it? I could see it causing problems if it wasn't managed properly. The code base is supposed to be cleaner now.
User avatar
SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
3206 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from Prattville, AL

Postby SJ_Digriz; Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:45 pm

Breeze wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote:They purposefully removed this feature several years ago to the consternation of the user base.

Really? Do you remember what versions still had it? I could see it causing problems if it wasn't managed properly. The code base is supposed to be cleaner now.

no, I can't remember exactly when, I just remember being pissed.

EDIT: it was either from VST/32 to SX or from SX to C4 I think.
I'm not insane. I'm reality challenged.
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