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3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:59 pm

Howard wrote:
mcnoone wrote:I listen to a lot of mp3 examples of classic analogue synths.
Check out a lot of samples of analogue synths.
Then try to capture some essence (however small) of the real thing, simply by ear, and not any technical ideas or oscilloscopes.
I also don't initially set out to create an emulation.
I just hear a resemblance come through as I fiddle with something, then work to make it better, after I realize it sounds like a mini or oscar or guitar...etc.
Yep - although I *can* get obsessive about technicalities too (like 3ee), in the context of this thread you must admit mcnoone made a good point there!

Yep, all true!
Plus, once you get technical, it's easy to get carried away! :D
-----------

BTW... if anyone has some wave files of the real Minimoog's waveforms, please share so I can model them as well ...to compare how they sound with what I've modeled. Shockingly :shock: I didn't find any on the Internet. (Still searching though) :)

I don't know how true this is, but the fact is that they all sound different in some degree or another and some of the early models of Model D produced different waveforms as well.

I will also try to make good use of mcnoone's tips, so I can shape the patch for the better. :)

PS Not that I really want to model a Minimoog in particular... but more of objectively proving to myself and others that Zebra can do a GREAT job with emulations as well as anything else. :)
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:50 am

mkastrup
KVRian
 
1102 posts since 4 Aug, 2004, from Copenhagen, Denmark

Postby mkastrup; Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:32 am

Once you got an ideal waveform then its time to look at the next important thing, the attack :)

Getting a good punch attack is kinda critical to those nice hardware sounds.
If you dont have that punch feel then the waveform will just sound flat and boring. In most cases its the 1st second of a sound which defines how we perceive it. A good example is the LA synthesis introduced in Roland D-50 synths where attack waveforms when combined with sustain waveforms created various instruments.

Now regarding raw analog waveforms we are talking about the same thing but on a micro level, the better envelope attack the more bite you can introduce via the filter.

That attack is so important that we usually turn to compressors on basses for that certain snap in the attack, but the best thing is to have that attack being there from the start.

Lately i've been working with Nord synthesizers like Nord Wave and Nord Lead and although these synths in basic are software they do have a very nice natural punch on the envelope start. Access Virus on the other hand have a very synthetic punch which is not my cup of tea.

So, dont forget the third important factor, the attack :) Waveform and filter wont do it alone.

/Michael
www.xsynth.com - Sound Synthesis with Vintage flavour
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:32 am

Hello Michael,

Thanks for the input!
I've already tried to modeled the attack punch. It's a bit more noticeable than normal I guess but other than that I don't know any better (excluding the XMF frequency dependent click).
If you have some time, can you please check it out and hear if it's good enough from your perspective?

shortcut to the patch: http://www.box.net/shared/tp7qmyx4f260a4x29lao
mkastrup
KVRian
 
1102 posts since 4 Aug, 2004, from Copenhagen, Denmark

Postby mkastrup; Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:39 am

3ee wrote:Hello Michael,

Thanks for the input!
I've already tried to modeled the attack punch. It's a bit more noticeable than normal I guess but other than that I don't know any better (excluding the XMF frequency dependent click).
If you have some time, can you please check it out and hear if it's good enough from your perspective?

shortcut to the patch: http://www.box.net/shared/tp7qmyx4f260a4x29lao


Hiyas 3ee,

Looks quite complex that setup you made :)

Anyways, i tried to do a similar sound with added attack feel since faking the attack by adding something on top will always reveal the attack as something not so uniform. Faking attack also requires a kind of keyboard follow shifting in the attack. So i suggest stick to normal envelope attack combined with the click from XMF.

Here is an example:

http://www.xsynth.com/download/moogie_a05.zip

/Michael
www.xsynth.com - Sound Synthesis with Vintage flavour
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:13 am

Finished! :P
Same link: http://www.box.net/shared/tp7qmyx4f260a4x29lao

So if you'll have a look at the oscillator tabs, you'll see that you're getting both the emulation modeled (left, waves 1-6) as well as the original wav modeled (right, waves 11-16)

Enjoy! :)

@ Michael .. Thanks for the example and the tips. Did something similar using ENV 4 + bus2 + EQ for coloring the punch.

Added: You'll need Zebra 2.5.2 or higher for the patch to work properly.
muleskinner
KVRist
 
43 posts since 7 Oct, 2002

Postby muleskinner; Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:51 am

Great stuff - thanks very much for posting this!
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:26 pm

muleskinner wrote:Great stuff - thanks very much for posting this!


You're welcome, enjoy! :)
arbee
KVRist
 
234 posts since 25 Oct, 2009

Postby arbee; Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:42 pm

thanks, I'll try that patch later tonight.
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:38 pm

arbee wrote:thanks, I'll try that patch later tonight.

Cool, let me know what you think!
I think that some aspects turned out to be better than the popular Minimoog emulations out there at the moment.
I'm not making any claims, it's just my opinion. :P
xalama qo
KVRian
 
1113 posts since 7 Jun, 2007

Postby xalama qo; Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:50 pm

This is a great sounding patch/template! Thanks for the Zoog!
Howard
KVRAF
 
3534 posts since 23 May, 2004, from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Postby Howard; Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:56 pm

What's up with the Noise1 module in that patch? There's no signal until the volume is over 100. Weird!
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:45 am

Howard wrote:What's up with the Noise1 module in that patch? There's no signal until the volume is over 100. Weird!



That's because it's assigned with XY4 (Y as Noise1's volume and it's set to 0 by default)
VCF1 and VCF2 is helping shape the noise color. (Done a better job coloring with the eq module using a separate bus, but than it couldn't get filtered with the main filter, which is the XMF1.
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:49 am

xalama qo wrote:This is a great sounding patch/template! Thanks for the Zoog!


Yes, it's obviously intended as a template! Have fun with it! :)
Zoog
:hihi:
Howard
KVRAF
 
3534 posts since 23 May, 2004, from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Postby Howard; Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:15 am

3ee wrote:
Howard wrote:What's up with the Noise1 module in that patch? There's no signal until the volume is over 100. Weird!
That's because it's assigned with XY4
Of course :dog:
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