Is the Kemper Profiling amp a game changer?

[jupiter8]

So it's a Nebula rackmount unit?

I've been thinking the same thing. I have no idea if that's the case or not.

[johnrrrrrr]

First, anyone judging something from crappy speakers and then spouting out a technical opinion on sound should be disqualified from humanity..haha

I have heard several demonstrations of this unit and it copied the sound in astounding detail. There was an amplitude difference between the 2 and through a youtube video its gonna ruin everything and make the bass heavier on the louder sound-- which was the Kemper..

I think people come up with these detailed responses about whats wrong to impress themselves. I've heard the same stuff from people describing what they've heard while I had an eq in bypass while turning the dials. Its freakin horseshizt.
Sounds moves and music changes. It will be different every time on a guitar and as a 40 year vet there wasnt a damm thing worth noting in the difference except the kemper was louder.

[bmanic]

Well if you are referring to me and my comment about the first video then.. well, whatever. I still maintain my opinion. I've now listened to the clip with my AKG K701 headphones and like expected, the differences are even more clear now.

Just because YOU can not hear the differences doesn't mean I can't. Also, you might be listening to it in a completely different manner than me. There are a million little details that one can attach to.

The main problem I have with the video, which also is true for many other amp modeling and analogue modeling programs in general, is the slight feeling of compression or "forcedness" of the sound. It is possible that it's caused by oversampling or something like that. I've never been able to put my finger on what it is exactly but it bothers me a bit. Not a lot but enough to still always seem to prefer the analogue counterpart.

Especially when it comes to guitar amplifiers, the distortion is just a bit more biting on the digital counterparts. I always seem to have to be a bit more careful with EQ to get things to not get all too harsh later in the project. User error on my behalf? Perhaps.. it's just been my general experience that a well recorded real amp is easier to mix.

I do like the concept of the Kemper amp but somehow it feels like yet another "liquid channel" or one of those numerous "amazing digital models of analogue gear!" things, hyped extremely much, and then costing ridiculous money.. even more than many of the models it tries to emulate.

We'll see how it turns out once it hits the shops. It might be amazing.. but I doubt it'll make me buy one immediately. I'm pretty happy with S-Gear and some other combinations and if those fail, use the real amps we have lying around.

EDIT: to clarify what I hear, it's like there is a bit of compression. I here the same thing with the other videos. Always when he switches to the original it sounds a bit more "free" somehow, not better tone wise but it's kind of less fat. I can very well imagine the kemper sounding even better than the original in some cases.

Cheers!
bManic

[electro]

Damn.

That's pretty impressive there. Does it do any effects or just the modeling?

Effects are included, too.


They announced that the kemper amp comes with several years of free software updates. (Like their Virus synth line including bugfixes and alot new toys for 15 years )

Mokafix was putting out "perfect" versions of pedals.

[AndrewSimon]

Give me an hour with it and I'll tell you,
could be great..... could be waste of money.
Hard to tell from youtube clips alone.

In general I'm not excited by the "snapshot of an amp" idea.

[Hink]

Give me an hour with it and I'll tell you,
could be great..... could be waste of money.
Hard to tell from youtube clips alone.

In general I'm not excited by the "snapshot of an amp" idea.

I can judge that amp in ten minute

Actually Eric said it was fantastic but for me tbh I dont want something that sounds like the real thing, I dont want something that sounds better than the real thing...I just want the real thing(s).

Why?

1. Becuase that's what I like and I want to have a bit of an amp collection (I have a good start now and if Feb I will be ordering another Frenzel and building a single ended amp with an el84)

2. Because I have been reading and studying for quite a while, the amp I build will not be my last amp built (but it will be my guinnea pig) and everyone knows that I have a passion for building things. The otherside of that coin is that a tube amp is simple (like me) and the more I build , mod and such the better I will be at repairing my own amps...not sure I'll ever be able to repair the profiling amp

But that's just me, I do think it could change the game quite a bt

[audiojunkie]

So it's a Nebula rackmount unit?

Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking. Couldn't Nebula do exactly what they are doing with this? And if it's not exact, wouldn't it produce similar results?

--Sean

[@midnight]

The solid body electric guitar was a game changer. The Marshall Stack was a game changer.

There are no game changers anymore, it's just not that kind of world anymore.

An example of a 2011 game changer would be... "Man invents way to transfer music from brain to hard drive" anything less than that is just another tool designed to make it easier for people to make their (probably entirely computer generated) music... *sigh*

[audiojunkie]

Here's what they say:

How does the profiling technique compare to classic modeling?

It took us several years of research and development to have the Profiling algorithm up and running. This chapter might be of interest for the more technically-minded amongst you.

Initially, we focussed our attention on existing and well-documented techniques, most of which fall under the heading "Dynamic Convolution". Even though these approaches seemed very promising at first glance, and certainly useful for recreating simple, soft distortion circuits, they were by no means adequate for complex guitar amplifiers with heavy distortion. Reality has shown that no other company has managed to create a profiling amp by these methods so far.

Other well-known modeling methods, such as a distortion devices framed by a pre- and post-equalizer, have been used in modeling amps of the first generation. They deliver reasonable results, but the sound still lacks complexity, depth and feel; furthermore, these methods don't qualify for an automated profiling procedure.

So, we had to go much deeper and, in the process, developed our own technology. A tube amp has dozens of dimensions in sound; consequently, the equation of the profiling algorithm needed dozens of variables to exactly recreate the sound and feel of the original amp.




We spent considerable time researching the dynamic behavior of the tube. It was also necessary to study the interactions between the tube and surrounding circuits, which become very complex when the tube starts to distort. We were lucky to find a way to extract this exact tube behavior by analyzing the intermodulation products of crossing sine sweeps. The relation between the intermodulations and the unprocessed sine sweeps tell us the full story about the distortion shape and dynamic of the tube and the behavior of the surrounding circuit. It can even deliver the information about several distortion stages in a row, so long as there is only one stage significantly distorting. This measurement is independent of the frequency response of the amplifier. Once the distorting part has been analyzed, it can be separated from the transfer function. The frequency response of the cabinet is then easy to determine and separate.

Aside from the ease of profiling the whole amp, there is another good reason not to analyze the amp part by part: we capture the sound of every component at the place where it belongs, including all interactions between the components.

http://kemper-amps.com

--Sean

[audiojunkie]

I don't know, it still sounds a lot like what Nebula does... the one minute (approximately) that the device uses to profile the sound still sounds like some form of convolution. It may be good or even fantastic, but it still sounds evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

--Sean

[@midnight]

John Lennon was a game changer.

[Aleatoriac]

I'm with Hink.

I'd add that my hearing is not what it used to be, so I can't tell the difference in a recording. Bet I could tell the difference playing through them though.

Really want to like sims and so on. Just hasn't happened yet.

I don't think it's a game changer.

To me a game changer would be something that is a unique take on the guitar. Sort of like what distortion and gain was for amps. Some new way to play the guitar and alter its sound.

But it sure is a cool deal though, and I can't tell the difference in the recorded sounds at all!

[cactuseskimo]

I don't know, it still sounds a lot like what Nebula does... the one minute (approximately) that the device uses to profile the sound still sounds like some form of convolution. It may be good or even fantastic, but it still sounds evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

--Sean

No, if you read the technical blurb, the dynamic convolution that they talk about which is only suitable for soft clipping, etc. is pretty much what Nebula is about. Believe me, Nebula can't capture an amp like that. We'd have some pretty sweet Nebula guitar amp programs by now if it could.

[hibidy]

Remember, there is NO spoon

I'm all for it but I just don't know people with amps that I'd like to model

Let's keep something in mind........lots of "oooo/ahhhhh" over things in the past. Stuff keeps improving, godspeed!

[zerocrossing]

You think they could easily make a vst plugin that loads the kempler profiles and allows basic manipulation like the amp does.

That would sell like hotcakes IMO. Yeah, I went there. HOTCAKES!

Well, since you brought it up... when was the last time you bought a hotcake?