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Sfz

Official support for: camelaudio.com

Moderators: ZenPunkHippy, ugo, biomechanoid, Ben [Camel Audio]

KVRist
 
46 posts since 6 Aug, 2006

Postby Maurex; Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:28 pm

Hey, I believe I mentioned this idea once, but not in a topic of myself. So here it goes. I wonder if you can sell the wavs and SFZ separately from the complete banks (which come with the presets). Not because I'm not interested on the presets, I do, but I'm more interested on the SFZ's and wavs to create my own sounds. And then the money issue comes in. Maybe a BUNDLE of all the wav and SFZ material you have (excluding the ones that are not from camel audio, like biomechanoid's, of course, unless he agrees). Then, whem I can, I would go on buying the soundbanks. Is there a chance, please? At least to consider it?
Think that the ones, like me, who can't buy a soundbank, maybe can buy these files... so it's an income for you, for which you have nothing else to do that re-package. Maybe a voting?
Win-Win sit.

Sorry if I kind of crossed some line, it wasn't my intention...

You already know have much I love you guys, so...

A hug, and thanks...

Mau.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9652 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:22 pm

Hi Mau,

Thanks for posting your suggestion. We (Camel) have discussed this idea before and while the idea itself is not bad one by any means, and may result in more sales, we're not convinced the price needs to change. That might seem like a contradiction, so I'll explain why ...

I would guess that the sample libraries you are most interested in are the ones that include lots of samples and SFZ instrument definitions e.g. Guitar Mutations, Analogica, Himalaya: Vintage, Dream Voices.

If we take Dream Voices and look at the number of included samples + SFZ instruments (around 1.3 GB installed) we could compare this bank with vocal libraries from other sample library developers. There is no question that the samples included with Dream voices match other libraries for size, range of vocals and overall sample quality. Comparing the price of $59.00 it is very similar, or in some cases actually cheaper.

Of course you also have 150 awesome Alchemy presets to play with but you can simply ignore these, and still have a set of top quality samples to mangle.

So my answer is really saying: flip the perspective and look at this as purchasing a high quality sample library with some free presets, instead of a preset library which happens to include some samples :)

The other problem with selling the raw samples without presets is that it will be confusing to some users who will no doubt purchase the sample only pack, and wonder why other people say Alchemy is so great ... because while the samples are great, most of our users are not so interested in the magic sound design that brings the samples to life.

We also give out free Camel Credits every so often, so that's one way you can save a few dollars ...

Does that make sense? Sorry for the long answer ... hope it's useful, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Peace,
Andy.
KVRist
 
46 posts since 6 Aug, 2006

Postby Maurex; Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:44 am

It does, a lot actually... Anyway I would prefer buying samples to you, if you know what I mean, although I know and heard the quality of the samples isn't optimal. I repeat again, not just for you but for everyone who may enter here and read this, my feelings: Alchemy is an Out Of This World Synth. Remember what I said about when I started using absynth 3 and learning additive synthesis? I dreamt about something like this at 2004 or 2005 actually, but was worser. But, you just not made The Instrument (you should be called the Stradivari of electronic synths), but you have some "open source" approach to it (which is great, I'm not a programmer myself nor I want to, I couldn't make music, no time, but talks of what kind of people you are), warm communication with us (the users, sometimes even in so Zen Discipline, if you get it). I'm actually trying to convert some of my friends to it (not a Jehova Witness though) and teach them what I've learned with it. Hope they buy it, nevertheless I use Sonar X1 Expanded (uses Sfz, coincidence? And I was first using Alchemy on cubase and live... then discovered Sonar... (synchronicity it's called by some people) and my friends are recently starting to learn, so they are using live... we will rewire it to my computer and Alchemy goes on Sonar, and they use live and their synths for their ideas .
They will soon realize, I Hope...

But you are right... although I would love to have the soundbanks complete, thought that maybe I could bye two for the price of one with only samples...

But I see your point, it doesn't make anysense at all for you. I love the presets anyway and they are great for learning, I actually discovered a sound, and suddenly played one of Infected Mushroom melodies, and was the same freaking sound (that's for you who say Alchemy doesn't sound nice... or read the post of the bass enhancer where I left a "trick" on VA synthesis to show how super powerful it is... I have the Sfz samples of Dimension Pro of Sonar, that I can use on Alchemy anyway (specially on orchestral things, although I would love to have Symphobia and that ones for real scoring sound.

Anyways, Thanks for the reply, and for taking that long (you shouldn't apologize to me... I should actually)

Oh, I just realize that you said that dream voices has a nice sounding wavs? Better that the others? I thought that you were leading me to buy for example those wavs for Kontakt and transform the nki to sfz. Ok, when I have the money, I'll ask you for assitance, if you don't mind, on what soundbank to buy, will you please? :D

Again, I coulnd't express how much grateful I am with you. :D

Keep it up! :D

Mau.

P.D: Sorry if this sounded so asslicking but this is really what I feel, I use Alchemy on every channel, Even the kicks are triggered by Alchemy, on their own track.

Oh, last question. When I trigger a Kick, every kick sounds a bit different, like it's starting later (less upper frequencies). The bass part (the final part of the kick is the same) but the snap and punch change. Maybe the AHDSR on the Master Volume? I put no attack, no hold, no decay, full sustain and no release. And it's in sample mode (maybe source B I load the same one in granular, for the upbilding manipulating the density and using one grain only, super cool effect). Any ideas on why this is happening? It makes it interesting though, but would love to know what's causing this to use it qhen I decide too...

Peace, Andy, Thank you very much.
KVRian
 
1451 posts since 28 Jul, 2003

Postby Ben H; Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:05 am

Just one point.

I think that a lot of the magic of the Alchemy sounds is in the programming and manipulation, not necessarily the sounds themselves.

In fact if you were to take the programming away and strip it back to just the raw samples, you would realise that a lot of them are pretty ordinary sounding on their own. :shrug:
STOP being such a rooster-tease and post some more demos!

My main tools: Alchemy, Iris, Kontakt, Omnisphere, Padshop Pro, SWAM and WIVI.
KVRAF
 
4223 posts since 19 Jun, 2008
 

Postby Shabdahbriah; Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:55 am

ben_horwood wrote:Just one point.

I think that a lot of the magic of the Alchemy sounds is in the programming and manipulation, not necessarily the sounds themselves.

In fact if you were to take the programming away and strip it back to just the raw samples, you would realise that a lot of them are pretty ordinary sounding on their own. :shrug:

Sorry for this (somewhat) "OT" moment... But, I would LOVE to see a "bypass" (association(s)) or more accurately an "un-tie" feature for Alchemy's presets, which would 'un-tie' all of the "settings/routings" from any particular/specific sample(s), and/or specific 'folder' (for THAT "presets" sample(s)) and/or any sfz file... so that the settings/routing(s) could be "auditioned" and explored using our own samples, without any jumping through hoops, or re-loading (there-of).


If I've missed this "feature", I'd be delighted to know. :)

[2c]
Perception is the ultimate "reality" ~ but not, the ultimate Truth.
KVRist
 
46 posts since 6 Aug, 2006

Postby Maurex; Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

I think it's pretty hard what you are asking for... Alchemy needs to resynthetise (additive or spectral) the wavs, and that needs reloading. Unless you are talking about sample mode, but sample mode it's easier because you have the Load Sample, not the import one... (don't remember the names, but I hope you understand what I mean). If what you want is to go to the import page and click a sample and hear it but with the preset's modulations and effects and all the programming... I mean... Long samples take time to resynth... you don't use the sample, it's re-created by Alchemy and then you use the resynthed file. I'm not sure though if I understood what you were asking for... Was I right?
Hug
Mau...
KVRist
 
46 posts since 6 Aug, 2006

Postby Maurex; Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:19 am

Ben: The samples are important, for this are the base (source ;)) of the sound which you will ultimately process, modulate etc (programming) AND playing. Even in VA synths... the better the waveforms sounds (we can discuss later what better means)... then of course you have the filter that changes the sound different, but every part is important. You can't prepared nice Sushi for example with rotten fish. But of course Alchemy is a synth and not a sampler (I don't care if the sources are samples and not waveforms, in fact, samples ARE waves too so...) but I think every part is important, if you have awsome Saws but your filters are shit and "destroy" the original Saws, the sound you get is "shit". In fact, I believe as a Sampler, in many things Alchemy is pretty poor... maybe not because of Alchemy, but Sfz. You need a HUGE script to make a really Real violin... first sample every note (velocities), next sample every possible slide (velocities, tempo, etc), so that when you want a legato from A4 to E5 it fires a sample of someone playing this, not the synth stretching the A4 sound (waveform, speeding it up), because it's not the same thing. Then staccatos and pizzicatos and Bartok pizzicatos and etc. It's endless, not endless actually but... Would I want this on Alchemy? OF COURSE!!! Having this and all Alchemy possibilities, like a legato on the violin but changing it to a flute with a slight vibrato that afterwards goes down in pitch a lot while transforming into a dinosaur's roar, I don't know... but we are on V.1. Or better, we can already do this, but a dinosaur aspirating and then sounds a flute playing "Oh L'amour" (don't know if that is the real name of that song), like if the dinosaur is playing :D. Wait, I branched too much... sorry... :D

Hug,
Mau.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9652 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:35 pm

Oh, I just realize that you said that dream voices has a nice sounding wavs? Better that the others? I thought that you were leading me to buy for example those wavs for Kontakt and transform the nki to sfz.

The reason I mentioned Dream Voices specifically is because I own some vocal libraries for Kontakt, but these cost $99.00 instead of $59.00, but you don't get any patches ... just the samples. The quality of the samples is very similar, so Dream Voices is actually much better value for money ...

The banks I mentioned are probably the best value in terms of the size and quality. That's not to say the other banks are bad, just that you don't get as many samples which is what you are looking for. Since you have the full version of Alchemy you might want to check out Simon Stockhausen's Alchemy banks:

http://www.patchpool.de/alchemy.html

The sample libraries are quite large and top quality, plus he's offering something a little different to what we are selling. Yes there are Alchemy patches included but as I said you can ignore these if you wish.

Peace,
Andy.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9652 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:39 pm

When I trigger a Kick, every kick sounds a bit different ...

Are you triggering a sample or using the VA engine? When using VA for kicks you will need to set the PVar knob to any value other than 100% which is random phase at note on (like an analogue synth). Setting to 25% or 75% are typical for creating consistent phase for kick drums.

If that's not the problem the best thing to do is send the preset to alchemy-beta [at] camelaudio [dot] com. If you're using custom samples please also include these in a zip file so the preset loads properly.

Peace,
Andy.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9652 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 pm

Shabdahbriah wrote:If I've missed this "feature", I'd be delighted to know.

There is no way to do what you want in the current version, but we will consider it for version 2. It would be cool to have, but I don't think it's going to be a priority ...

Peace,
Andy.
KVRist
 
46 posts since 6 Aug, 2006

Postby Maurex; Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:58 pm

I know Andy, just realized later what you meant :D. I love presets too, and they are incredible as starting points (sometimes a saw is very frustrating and uninspirating, if you know what I mean... Alchemy is so endless that it paralizes me sometimes). I wouldn't ignore them, and besides, you learn a lot by analise them, so it was just a question about if I could "choose", I would go for the wavs and Sfz's. But it really doesn't make sense at all, as you have pointed out earlier.
I'll check out Simon's Banks, but I have the feeling that the next Alchemy Banks will be some of Camel Audio's. I suppose your company programmers know Alchemy inside out.

Thanks again Andy... Oh, and any clues about the Kick Drum thing? It seems it triggers the attack every time from a different point. Really weird... and it would be a shame to have to use another thing because Alchemy can do pretty stuff on a Kick (on everything actually). Maybe on a 4/4 I would use another and for weird, processed or something like that... alchemy...

Thanks a lot again... Sorry for all this long post, I can't help it so sorry and really thanks for the patience (imagine me on a dinner o friends reunion, although people laugh a lot, sometimes it's too much. But this is what is...
:(
:D

Oh, and don't hesitate on asking me whatever you need, I will follow you to the end of the world supporting this incredible monstruous machine. So if someone complains or anything, let me know... I talk to much, give to much (useless almost everytime) :D information, but I talk from the heart and can be too polite when needed and even joking, but with LOVE, not sarcasm nor anything like that.

Forever yours ;)
KVRAF
 
4223 posts since 19 Jun, 2008
 

Postby Shabdahbriah; Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:59 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote:
Shabdahbriah wrote:If I've missed this "feature", I'd be delighted to know.

There is no way to do what you want in the current version, but we will consider it for version 2. It would be cool to have, but I don't think it's going to be a priority ...

Peace,
Andy.

TY :)
Perception is the ultimate "reality" ~ but not, the ultimate Truth.
KVRist
 
46 posts since 6 Aug, 2006

Postby Maurex; Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:06 am

I use it in sample... with actually no tweaking... fast attack, no decay, sustain full, 0 release...
I will send it you anytime soon... Thanks!
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9652 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:22 am

I'll check out Simon's Banks, but I have the feeling that the next Alchemy Banks will be some of Camel Audio's. I suppose your company programmers know Alchemy inside out.

Not to push Simon's patches and samples, but he's also done some sound design work for Camel so he's a fully qualified Alchemy programmer! There is no doubt he puts the same effort in with his self-released banks ... check out the demos on Soundcloud.

Peace,
Andy.
KVRist
 
46 posts since 6 Aug, 2006

Postby Maurex; Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:13 am

I already did! Pretty Cool! Bookmarked the web :D,
Thanks Andy! ;)
Always a pleasure :D.

Hug,
Mau.

Moderators: ZenPunkHippy, ugo, biomechanoid, Ben [Camel Audio]

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