Can you learn to do pro mixing with headphones...?
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- KVRist
- 56 posts since 4 Oct, 2011
After getting a pair of mixing and monitoring headphones, my mixes sound wayyy better overall on all systems since you can tune all frequences with the slightest adjustements
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- KVRian
- 528 posts since 17 Apr, 2009 from portland oregon
+1 for krk ksn8400's
plus the following on the master bus:
Redline monitor
1 db of gain around 100 hz an 1-2 db shaved off with a hi-shelf
something like this:
It's important to remember to turn the stuff off once you're done listening and ready to render, and it's also priceless to keep checking against speakers (good or bad)
That seems to do the trick for me. My mixes have made so much more sense, and I can tell my frequencies apart!
plus the following on the master bus:
Redline monitor
1 db of gain around 100 hz an 1-2 db shaved off with a hi-shelf
something like this:
It's important to remember to turn the stuff off once you're done listening and ready to render, and it's also priceless to keep checking against speakers (good or bad)
That seems to do the trick for me. My mixes have made so much more sense, and I can tell my frequencies apart!
I run a netlabel http://oligopolistrecords.bandcamp.com
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
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- KVRAF
- 7400 posts since 17 Feb, 2005
HERES A TIP GUYS:
You can get MORE, BASS, response, from your cans if you follow this simple rule:
Put an EQ on your master BUS.
Use a LOW SHELF filter, and bump it up 6 decibels, from the f3 of your cans, natural low frequency rolloff.
THEN, turn the GAIN DOWN, 6 decibels, because you don't want to blow up your cans.
IT WILL ONLY BE, half volume, but the bass is extended, similar to ported speakers.
THE REASON FOR THIS, is because the cans sit on your ears, and the bass might leak out of your cans.
so now, YOU CAN PRO MIX, with cans, but only if, you crank up the mids as well.
So you have to crank up the mids, and that will be revealing, because they will sound dull, after the bass boost.
Do not blow up your cans. I had to send mine back to the manufacturer for repair. This is because they are made in America.
If you do not know, the f3 of your cans, then you need to check out this really cool website, that I bought my cans from, and they have a little chart, with the frequency response.
http://www.headphone.com/
This is how you extend the LOW FREQUENCIES only one octave down (or less) from the natural rolloff of your cans. MOVE the f3, one octave or less, down, so you can hear the bass.
You make mixes like a PROFESSIONAL this way.
You can get MORE, BASS, response, from your cans if you follow this simple rule:
Put an EQ on your master BUS.
Use a LOW SHELF filter, and bump it up 6 decibels, from the f3 of your cans, natural low frequency rolloff.
THEN, turn the GAIN DOWN, 6 decibels, because you don't want to blow up your cans.
IT WILL ONLY BE, half volume, but the bass is extended, similar to ported speakers.
THE REASON FOR THIS, is because the cans sit on your ears, and the bass might leak out of your cans.
so now, YOU CAN PRO MIX, with cans, but only if, you crank up the mids as well.
So you have to crank up the mids, and that will be revealing, because they will sound dull, after the bass boost.
Do not blow up your cans. I had to send mine back to the manufacturer for repair. This is because they are made in America.
If you do not know, the f3 of your cans, then you need to check out this really cool website, that I bought my cans from, and they have a little chart, with the frequency response.
http://www.headphone.com/
This is how you extend the LOW FREQUENCIES only one octave down (or less) from the natural rolloff of your cans. MOVE the f3, one octave or less, down, so you can hear the bass.
You make mixes like a PROFESSIONAL this way.
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- KVRian
- 528 posts since 17 Apr, 2009 from portland oregon
Yikes!camsr wrote:HERES A TIP GUYS:...
Sorry I offended you so much.
I was going to formulate a response to that but I guess it's just a troll. Eh, I'll take a stab at it.
The reason I use EQ on the master is not that i'm an idiot, or believe a response curve religiously, just that in comparison with nice monitors in a good room, I don't get as much "thud" from my headphones. So instead of accidentally overdoing the low end while I mix, I can have a bit of compensation. I'm also never said it's perfect, or that everyone believes it is the "pro" solution. Just sharing my way of making headphones work.
What's your gameplan when mixing on headphones? Sharing your apparently superior knowledge would help everyone more than mocking me.
I run a netlabel http://oligopolistrecords.bandcamp.com
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
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- KVRAF
- 7400 posts since 17 Feb, 2005
Why take offense? Nothing was directed at you...quayquay17 wrote:Yikes!camsr wrote:HERES A TIP GUYS:...
Sorry I offended you so much.
I was going to formulate a response to that but I guess it's just a troll. Eh, I'll take a stab at it.
The reason I use EQ on the master is not that i'm an idiot, or believe a response curve religiously, just that in comparison with nice monitors in a good room, I don't get as much "thud" from my headphones. So instead of accidentally overdoing the low end while I mix, I can have a bit of compensation. I'm also never said it's perfect, or that everyone believes it is the "pro" solution. Just sharing my way of making headphones work.
What's your gameplan when mixing on headphones? Sharing your apparently superior knowledge would help everyone more than mocking me.
I use open backs, and the bass response rolls off smoothly. But to get a better contour, I need to boost the lows something akin to the Equal Loudness Contour. But if I don't turn the gain down, I risk damage to the drivers. After this happens, the mids get lost and need to be boosted as well. In this regard, headphones have a very decent sound, worthy of many forms of audio production.
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SoundSonicTeam SoundSonicTeam https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=275468
- KVRist
- 96 posts since 20 Feb, 2012 from London
I'd say mix on both high end speakers+headphones and budget speakers+headphones. The trick is to remember that most punters out there don't have expensive speaker systems so if you can make your mix sound amazing on rubbish speakers/headphones then you know it'll sound great on everything.
- KVRAF
- 19134 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
I think he may have misread all the random ALL-CAPS in your previous post, which I couldn't tell was serious or not until I read your much more eloquent response here.camsr wrote:Why take offense? Nothing was directed at you...quayquay17 wrote:Yikes!camsr wrote:HERES A TIP GUYS:...
Sorry I offended you so much.
I was going to formulate a response to that but I guess it's just a troll. Eh, I'll take a stab at it.
The reason I use EQ on the master is not that i'm an idiot, or believe a response curve religiously, just that in comparison with nice monitors in a good room, I don't get as much "thud" from my headphones. So instead of accidentally overdoing the low end while I mix, I can have a bit of compensation. I'm also never said it's perfect, or that everyone believes it is the "pro" solution. Just sharing my way of making headphones work.
What's your gameplan when mixing on headphones? Sharing your apparently superior knowledge would help everyone more than mocking me.
I use open backs, and the bass response rolls off smoothly. But to get a better contour, I need to boost the lows something akin to the Equal Loudness Contour. But if I don't turn the gain down, I risk damage to the drivers. After this happens, the mids get lost and need to be boosted as well. In this regard, headphones have a very decent sound, worthy of many forms of audio production.
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- KVRian
- 528 posts since 17 Apr, 2009 from portland oregon
Sorry then! I guess i'm not accustomed to your methods, I thought I was being had!camsr wrote: Why take offense? Nothing was directed at you...
I use open backs, and the bass response rolls off smoothly. But to get a better contour, I need to boost the lows something akin to the Equal Loudness Contour. But if I don't turn the gain down, I risk damage to the drivers. After this happens, the mids get lost and need to be boosted as well. In this regard, headphones have a very decent sound, worthy of many forms of audio production.
I run a netlabel http://oligopolistrecords.bandcamp.com
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 30 Aug, 2011 from somewhere in universe
After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.
All that stuff regarding frequency response, spatial positioning, etc. could be easily dealt with, if you know what to look for.
In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.
All that stuff regarding frequency response, spatial positioning, etc. could be easily dealt with, if you know what to look for.
In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
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- KVRAF
- 2590 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany
I would recommend to buy very cheap headphones for mixing. I mean headphones that do NOT reveal every detail, but instead give you a coarse overview. You'll get the volume levels and everything else much quicker into the right relation with cheap headphones. Such headphones you'll get for 10$/€ in every supermarket.Loki Fuego wrote:After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.
For the sound-details, panorama etc of course, you need something like
this:
The Sennheiser HD-650 truly overwhelms you with stereo-width and details. Good for listening and the joy. But bad for the first mix.Loki Fuego wrote: In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 30 Aug, 2011 from somewhere in universe
Heh...enroe wrote:I would recommend to buy very cheap headphones for mixing. I mean headphones that do NOT reveal every detail, but instead give you a coarse overview. You'll get the volume levels and everything else much quicker into the right relation with cheap headphones. Such headphones you'll get for 10$/€ in every supermarket.Loki Fuego wrote:After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.
For the sound-details, panorama etc of course, you need something like
this:
The Sennheiser HD-650 truly overwhelms you with stereo-width and details. Good for listening and the joy. But bad for the first mix.Loki Fuego wrote: In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.
http://simultalk.homestead.com/musiccube.html
That's what I'm using for rough mixing. Only after I get everything sounding right on that thing, I switch to my HD-650. And frankly speaking, by that time my mix won't need too much work. Some panning, maybe some low end treatment and couple of tweaks here and there.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
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- KVRAF
- 7400 posts since 17 Feb, 2005
You wouldn't happen to do sound design on that also would you? I would think there is way more distortion than necessary.Loki Fuego wrote:Heh...enroe wrote:I would recommend to buy very cheap headphones for mixing. I mean headphones that do NOT reveal every detail, but instead give you a coarse overview. You'll get the volume levels and everything else much quicker into the right relation with cheap headphones. Such headphones you'll get for 10$/€ in every supermarket.Loki Fuego wrote:After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.
For the sound-details, panorama etc of course, you need something like
this:
The Sennheiser HD-650 truly overwhelms you with stereo-width and details. Good for listening and the joy. But bad for the first mix.Loki Fuego wrote: In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.
http://simultalk.homestead.com/musiccube.html
That's what I'm using for rough mixing. Only after I get everything sounding right on that thing, I switch to my HD-650. And frankly speaking, by that time my mix won't need too much work. Some panning, maybe some low end treatment and couple of tweaks here and there.
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 30 Aug, 2011 from somewhere in universe
Nope. I do all sound design on HD650. That makes sure that all my sounds play well together (without any additional treatment) in the first place.camsr wrote:You wouldn't happen to do sound design on that also would you? I would think there is way more distortion than necessary.
I switch to that musical cube when I'm done arranging.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
- KVRAF
- 8620 posts since 2 Oct, 2006 from Leeds, UK
This guy used HD600s http://mixerlt.blogspot.com/p/showcase.html
Said his last two mixes were done on the HD600s but he checks the mixes on other sources. A few engineers seem to favour them including Bob Katz. So i guess the answer is yes it can be done if you learn your phones and check mixes. Mixing secrets is worth picking up as it covers the pros and cons of mixing on low end monitors vs headphones in an untreated room.
Said his last two mixes were done on the HD600s but he checks the mixes on other sources. A few engineers seem to favour them including Bob Katz. So i guess the answer is yes it can be done if you learn your phones and check mixes. Mixing secrets is worth picking up as it covers the pros and cons of mixing on low end monitors vs headphones in an untreated room.
Latest release and Socials: https://linktr.ee/ph.i.ltr3
- KVRAF
- 3452 posts since 19 Aug, 2008 from USA-lien In the 8th Dimention
I'm torn, I've used $20 headphones and got some really good results. I use $100 KRKs at the moment and feel VERY good about my mixes. My mixing skills are not as good as the KRKs but I feel the better headphones are making a difference in learning what to listen to so my mixing skills get better. I do want a good pair of studio monitors. But the phone what I must use as I have roommates.