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10cc's "INIL CHOIR'...
hollowsun
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:13 pm reply with quote
We're very chuffed to announce that we've had a little hand in this unique library.

Our friends at SampleTekk managed to secure the rights from 10cc's Eric Stewart to make the astonishing vocal washes of their seminal hit record, a production masterpiece, "I'm not in love", available as a sample library and SampleTekk honoured us by asking HS to put together a Kontakt GUI for the project.

Not just an honour but enormously exciting because, as far as I am concerned, 'INIL' is one of the best records ever made.

The band spent three weeks recording hours of 'aaaahs' of individual notes onto 16 track, creating big stacks of vocals which were then mixed down to countless stereo reel-to-reels which were then bounced back to to the 16 track and some tracks further bounced down within the 16-track leaving a few tracks let for the Rhodes, Eric's vocal, some bass (from co-writer Graham Gouldman), a (synthesised) kick drum (done on MiniMoog) from Kevin Godley plus some grand piano and, of course, the 'Big boys don't cry' from 10cc's studio secretary. And then the band 'played' their Helios mixing desk, fading and punching in and out this astonishing wash of vocal textures. A leviathan achievement and quite frankly, it was quite eerie to have in our possession the raw recordings from such a classic record.

Those samples are now available HERE.

We did a custom GUI for it that allows a great deal of flexibility...



And in the process of building that, came up with a quick and rough and ready little AUDIO DEMO

This is a great opportunity to buy into a piece of classic pop history for a modest price. It was certainly thrilling to have been involved.

And if anyone is in touch with Enya, let her know - these lads were doing it over a decade before she was and wrestling with the technology of the time to achieve their vision! Wink

Cheers,



Stephen
^ Joined: 15 Jan 2005  Member: #54951  Location: UK
DaveElson
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:54 am reply with quote
Stephen,

I agree with everything you say re this song. Great to hear it again, and to read about how it was created.
^ Joined: 16 Jul 2004  Member: #33427  Location: Seattle
Spitfire31
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:42 am reply with quote
DaveElson wrote:
Great to hear it again, and to read about how it was created.

Absolutely! And I don't doubt the quality for a second, not when it's produced by such notables in the field of sampled instruments as Per and Stephen. But…

Can I include such an immediately identifiable sound in my humble music without coming across as a nostalgic copycat?

I suppose it could always be layered with a suitable synth choir to mask the origin a bit. But in that case, if I don't want to write 'INIL Choir' on the face of the listener, why would I pay 45 bucks for a single sound, if I could get something similar but more 'current sounding' from one of my synths?

It would be interesting to hear some views on how others plan to use this product.

So far, I'm on the fence with this one. Maybe I just want to be convinced… Wink

Kind regards,

Joachim
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^ Joined: 18 May 2003  Member: #7226  Location: Sweden
hollowsun
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:37 am reply with quote
Spitfire31 wrote:
Can I include such an immediately identifiable sound in my humble music without coming across as a nostalgic copycat?

The Kontakt GUI we did here at HS Towers allows a surprising amount of flexibility...

There's the ADSR, 3-band EQ, echo and convolved reverb and the mod wheel's linked to a lowpass filter for real-time control and you can transform the sound quite a bit beyond 'the' INIL sound (right down to stripping it of everything and ending up with something resembling a crusty old Mellotron!).

But with regard to 'nostalgic copycat', one could argue much the same about other sampled sounds - my CP70, for example ... would buying/using that in a track condemn you to being some nostalgic copycat of Genesis, Peter Gabriel or U2, whoever ... or Keane who made it a signature sound? Surely it's how you (ab)use them that's the trick - the INIL Choir doesn't HAVE to sound like INIL.

Spitfire31 wrote:
I suppose it could always be layered with a suitable synth choir to mask the origin a bit. But in that case, if I don't want to write 'INIL Choir' on the face of the listener, why would I pay 45 bucks for a single sound, if I could get something similar but more 'current sounding' from one of my synths?

I take your point but in a way, this is not about buying some breathy vocal thing but having THE original breathy vocal sound, created some five years before the Fairlight and a decade or more before the likes of Enya made breathy vocal pads a common part of our musical vocabulary and created over a period of weeks and involving enormous skill, creativity and ingenuity - genius even.

I mean, I could nip out to some sports shop this afternoon and buy a cricket ball for a few quid... but I'd pay more for the one that won England the Ashes ... IYSWIM.

And it's like those 'name' guitars that appear on eBay... you can buy a Les Paul for £whatever but if one was played by Gary Moore, add a few noughts ... even though it's a bog standard Les Paul!

I'm not saying those are the best analogies but it's that kind of thing - a sort of "collector's item" aspect to it - and personally, £30 to own that classic sound, the actual sounds (taken from the original tapes by the chap who wrote the song) seems (to me at least) pretty reasonable - you're buying not just the 'sound' but the whole history and everything behind THAT sound.

It's up to you to decide if that is important to you. I can tell you that many do value that aspect of the library.

It's your call, of course, and I shan't be twisting your arm ... much! Wink

Cheers,


Stephen
^ Joined: 15 Jan 2005  Member: #54951  Location: UK
rexman77
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:10 am reply with quote
Oh my god, Steve, why must you release these gems when I have no money?! Sad

An interesting note about I'm not in love: When they were using the mixing desk to "play" the choir notes, they stuck a piece of gaffer tape along the bottom of the faders to keep them from going all the way down. This created an interesting wash of enharmonic sound/noise in the background of the whole track, which gave it the ethereal quality it's known for.

It would be interesting to see if there was a way to do this in kontakt, but I think the way the software handles voices would prevent it.

Anyway, can't wait until I have the funds, I am DEFINITELY buying this.
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The only thing we shouldn't know is what we can't do.
^ Joined: 10 Oct 2010  Member: #241219  Location: USA
Spitfire31
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:45 pm reply with quote
hollowsun wrote:

It's your call, of course, and I shan't be twisting your arm ... much! Wink

Cheers,


Stephen

Ouch! That twisting was enough to force me down from the fence. Wink

It layers quite nicely with a piano…

Best,

Joachim
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whyterabbyt
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:32 am reply with quote
Its not a library that I actually think I have any use for personally, but I have to say, its an absolutely brilliant concept!
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darsho
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:48 pm reply with quote
I was curious and listened to the 10cc Song on youtube.
I must say it sounds terrible to my ears, never liked that kind of music at all.
No offense though to anybody's taste who likes it, it surely is a great tune in it's genre of music and tastes are different, which makes music so exciting.

I like the idea of the choir in Kontakt.
However, I might not have any use for it other than to maybe layer Chorus Vocals , so I won't buy it at this point. 30 Pund Sterling these days is not something I spend without being sure I have use for it.
But if I feel I need this kind of Kontakt patch in a song, I know where to get it !

Great interface, btw.
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new Dusk to Dawn Song ! Synth-Pop / New-Wave
https://soundcloud.com/dusktodawn/dusk-to-dawn-traces-synth-pop
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hollowsun
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:24 am reply with quote
That's fine - if you have no need for it, there's no law compelling you to buy it (although when I am Prime Minister, it will be mandatory for everyone to buy HS library ... even if they don't have a sampler!! And HS Towers will be nominated a National Monument of Great Historical Importance! Wink )

Even if you don't like the song, you have to admire the epic production on it. A phenomenal achievement back in 1974.

It also probably depends on how old one is. For some youngsters coming to INIL for the first time now, it might not seem that impressive, used, as we are, to breathy vocal washes and pads, etc., but when that record came out, it was a phenomenon - no-one had heard anything quite like it before.

There were two versions - the album version and the single. The album version was quite a bit longer so it was edited down for 'radio-friendly' airplay (if you know the track well, you can hear the edit!). However, such was the impact the record had, the radio DJs all played the longer, album version, sometimes against the wishes of the program producer!!

And if you don't 'get' (or listen to) the lyrics, it may well sound like a slushy love ballad but those lyrics are a bit of a masterpiece of speaking in the double-negative. Very clever.

But whatever, those aren't necessarily grounds for buying something you have no use for. I understand.

darsho wrote:
Great interface, btw.

Thanks! Smile

Cheers,


Stephen
^ Joined: 15 Jan 2005  Member: #54951  Location: UK
Woody Aki
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:48 am reply with quote
hollowsun wrote:
For some youngsters coming to INIL for the first time now, it might not seem that impressive, used, as we are, to breathy vocal washes and pads, etc.


Sod the kids...we'll force it down their throats whether they like it or not! HiHi
^ Joined: 03 Dec 2007  Member: #167320  Location: Cambridge, UK
hollowsun
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:52 am reply with quote
Woody Aki wrote:
Sod the kids...we'll force it down their throats whether they like it or not!

Good man. Sound principles! Wink
^ Joined: 15 Jan 2005  Member: #54951  Location: UK
rexman77
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:12 am reply with quote
Woody Aki wrote:
hollowsun wrote:
For some youngsters coming to INIL for the first time now, it might not seem that impressive, used, as we are, to breathy vocal washes and pads, etc.


Sod the kids...we'll force it down their throats whether they like it or not! HiHi


Hey, some of us like it! Sad
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