PAK, I dont know you but I think you should re-read your words. You said no hard feelings, yet the above is absolutely dripping with sarcasm and downright rudeness/meanness. Do you really think this is the way to get a respectful response out of a developer? And then you just walk away saying 'no hard feelings'?

I *don't* want to discuss the issue further, but since you're questioning responses publicly then I'll address it one final time publicly. But it's time to move on. There's no sense dragging stuff out. PM if you must, but I'd rather not hear it as everything I'm going to say on the topic has already been said on this thread..

I was bluntly honest with my opinions in challenging someones reasons for doing something. Having re-read what I wrote, whilst you can always phrase some things much better, I'm also ok with the broad jist of it given the responses I received. On the internet people can often read more into someones attitudes / motivations from text than the intent that's actually there.

My attitude was always intended towards a problem and the decision making behind it, and not anything else. I realize sometimes people find it difficult to divorce that from the personal, and that's maybe more true in Urs case since he runs his own small business. It's maybe more true on KVR too, where some people might feel they personally know Urs a little bit and so there's a number of "u-he fans" - for want of a better term

I admit it's difficult to know how to approach such a subject when Urs decision basically breaks how DAW (not CC) automation works with probably every hardware controller out there. So, when Urs portrays such a decision as "for users benefit", yet it presently leaves no DAW automation based controllers (I'm aware of) able to properly control the product, then it's difficult to know where to go from that? If people think it's rude to point out that I believe this to be a highly unreasonable decision then what can I say?

I'm not a fan of the Apple-esque business practice of knowlingly implementing something in a way that will break how other products work with it, but with a sort of attitude that says "my way is the correct way and they must change their products to suit my way of doing things". Maybe it's a way to get progress? All I know is that's not how I'd rather see things done personally without really good reasons. If others feel Urs has provided good reasons then "ok".

So, as far as this sub-forum is concerned, I won't be posting again unless it's some sort of thing related to very specific stability bugs or something. I'm still happy to recommend Diva (controller issues aside) based on its sound engine, and - to end on a sort of positive - it would actually be nice to hear from people who are using Diva on an Automation based (not direct CC) controller which CAN handle how Diva does things, if there are any out there. I won't be spending any time replying to such topics though..

True, but TBH I only saw that from YOU, before you switched to sarcasm etc.. Oh, the irony...

All negative responses to your posts were only about your tone (rightly so IMO), not about what you pointed out.

The sarcasm was fully intended and people are free to interpret my words how they like. But perhaps it's wise to stop dragging threads in your own forum off-topic with discussions about what you think of them, instead of on-topic things like the fact U-he's product currently doesn't work correctly with (any?) automation based controllers.

"All negative responses" amount to about three or so posters. I'm sure you could harness some more - the forum is based on KVR after all. Such posts merely distract from actual issues anyway and I've invited that people address me directly (rather than publicly) unless they actually want a distraction?

Throwing a tantrum is not as persuasive an argument as one might think.

Reactable?

I hate when users exaggerate because an itsibitsi tiny thing that they perceive as a flaw becomes the whole center of their product perception.

It's not the centre of my perception of Diva - That would be the excellent audio work of Clemens Heppner. Issues with an Octave switch are a separate thing which merely mess with folks ability to access that good work from a hardware controller.

Well, but we and also synth-project will be demonstrating really nicely working hardware controllers that work just fine.

Even if we did provide an octave switch, your hardware controller will still not snap into the positions, thus will be flawed. Which is exactly why we suggest a different paradigm: Semitones and Cents. Works wonders. Easy to implement for hardware companies. But what do you expect from a world where most haven't even sussed out 14 bit MIDI Controllers?

I think I have given enough information about our motives and about the technical reasons for things being as they are.

Oh, I very much agree about stuff like 14-bit control Urs, and the relative foot-dragging in that industry. Though at least touch screen technology is likely to be helpful in driving forward generic controllers when one of them eventually implements integrating something like an iPad well. It'd just be nice if you could've figured out a way to do what you want to do whilst keeping other controllers happy.

And btw - in case you didn't notice - I did signal, above, that I'll be "moving on" from commenting about such things in future, because directing over an hour of my time thinking/typing about this issue on this thread was way more than enough for one products lifetime

I figured I'd spend that time in one place, now, because I knew you were working on a forthcoming MIDI update, and I'm otherwise happy with Diva other than the usual sorts of bugs/addition desires.. If you want a better variety of complaints, other than about hardware controller implementations, then maybe give people more to complain about next time

I just want to give a couple comments Urs because I'm hoping this issue doesn't drop off your radar.



I must correct you here, this isn't actually true, it absolutely can snap into positions, in fact you can even use buttons. See the good thing about automation ID based hardware mapping such as automap is that, as I've described in my previous posts, you can set the increments (resolution) of the control, meaning that yes you can snap to values that you want. Rather than being stuck with 128 increments like midi, these controls are whatever resolution that actual parameter contain or whatever you tell it to snap to. So for a menu item that may have 4 selections, it may be a range of just 4, or it may be a range of 1000. Either works. And in fact, you can use buttons as well rather than a knob for those things that make sense to select a few options.

So for example when there is an osc octave switch on a synth, you can make one button above a knob send increments up by whatever resolution is appropriate and the button below to send the increment downwards. So on a synth where there is a value for each octave and five octaves to chose from, it is an increment of 1 over range of 5 steps. For your DIVA, it still works for octave switching, you just set the increment to 12 over a total resolution of 61 (-30 to 30). There you have it, press a button and it increases an octave, another button decreases an octave. Or if you wish, a knob that snaps to octaves. It works perfectly BUT only from -12 to 12 in DIVA. As soon as you go below or above those it resets the detune which is very unfortunate.



I'm sure they do but Urs, please realize that there are many existing controllers out there that people would like to use that work wonders already. Some of these that are mased on automation ID have massive benefits over the outdated midi style of hardware control (resolution, customized ranges, feedback in both directions of values, MUCH easier learning and instant naming on screen of parameters etc.). Also, people don't always have the money (or studio space!) for more controllers for a single purpose and want to use their existing set up.

And by the way, I totally agree that it isn't right to exaggerate a single problem to the point of making it seem "unusable". DIVA is very usable with automap and other system like Kore and Maschine. It's just an annoyance to have to remember not to go to 32' or 2' (-24 or 24) on your controller. I also make a knob to move in semi-tones, but switching octaves may be the single most tweaked element when experimenting with a new sound so it does slow things down not being able to have that instant full range via buttons press.

And let me just say that the reason this issue stands out is because otherwise, DIVA is perfect for automation ID based mapping. And absolutely meant for hardware control and is an otherwise perfect replacement for hardware. I hope you do give some thought to a workaround for this. Automap users, Maschine users, Kore users, ipad Ableton users and the new akai device users will surely thank you!

And if I can be of any help at all in testing experimental solutions or explaining in more detail the working of this type of mapping, I'd be more than haappy. I trully believe it is the future, especially with so many instant mapping hardware devices coming out lately.

Warm regards

In case anyone still uses Kore my template seems to work nicely for it - even the tune knobs (it turns both at once - was a bit confusing for me till Urs explained it but it does the job)

Download from my site (in sig)

Hi there

I've used some of your Kore templates before, thanks!

I know you recently switched to Mac and was wondering if you were considering mapping the U-He AUs for Kore as the VSTs aren't going to be 64bit (or at least not 2.4VSTs)

Cheers (still appreciate your Kore efforts!)

Alan

I don't have Kore on my Mac currently - I've already been forced to update to the non Kore compatible NI plugins on my Mac as the previous versions just didn't work and it looks like sooner or later something on OS-X is going to break Kore (eg Snow Leopoard) so I'll probably just keep it on Windows and keep that system frozen.

Gotcha.

Been doing pretty well on Lion with Kore. No issues I can think of.

Not sure if I want to update to Mountain Lion though... haven't seen any benefits as yet!