Now that Valhalla shimmer is released and sounds beautiful, I wonder if you ever planned to make something like Crystal Echoes from the H3000 ?

I got response from Eventide today that the H3000 native will NOT feature Crystal Echoes, so it's yours for the taking. It would be awesome with this multishifting / reversed delay thing

I've certainly thought about it. Especially since the pitch shifting block in ValhallaShimmer can produce backwards delays that sync to tempo (when hooked up into a plugin that does this, of course).



Well, SoundToys took it first. I think that the same folks that designed the Crystal Echos for the H3000 programmed the SoundToys Crystallizer. This isn't to say that I won't do my own variant on this type of algorithm, but I would want to bring more to the table than "it's cheaper!"

The issue for me is how much stuff can fit in there, versus how easy it is to control things. A lot of people would just use the plugin for backwards delays or the stereo microshift, and a plugin that did this could have a fairly minimal control set. But there are a LOT of places I could go with these algorithms, and I'd like to explore that. I just don't know if something with ÜberMod-esque complexity is a good idea, or if I should go simpler.

I guess this is a good place to open up this thread for suggestions. What would people like to see in a pitch-shifting/reversing/granular thing?



I do love that sound. Back in the summer of 2010, I created a plugin to test the pitch shifting code, that did the backwards thing as well. Lots o' fun.

Sean Costello

Thanks for the response!

What you could do is to have those simple parameters in the front (which ultimately morph controls the advanced parameters), and you could have a button which unveils the advanced mode.

If you are familiar with Nord, they have something called Morph controls which can control multiple params in a special fashion. So on the top you have easy access to create drastic effects.

I tried Crystallizer once, and I never got it to produce that classic Crystal Echoes sound

NM, got an Eventide Orville Now I can do all that stuff. Let me know if you need samples or comparisons or anything

Congratulations on your purchase! I don't think that those high end Eventides will ever be obsolete. My goal is to create plugins that match and exceed the Eventides in power & weirdness, but the fact remains that the vSig era Eventides (DSP4000, Oroville, DSP7000/7600, and H8000 have THOUSANDS of algorithms available for them. And the average Eventide algorithm isn't simply a preset variation of an existing algorithm, but rather a unique block of signal processing, similar to the modes in the Valhalla plugins.

Sean Costello

there are some Eventide algorithms I would really love to see in a vst.
Which is the best way to share them ?
Should I record a dry, single sound through them and post it ?

I think Ubermod owns the structure to get really close !

I think that ValhallaShimmer is already closer to the 'feeling' of Crystal Echoes than SoundToys Crystallizer. I use it whenever I want that sound (since I no longer own an H3000).

Sean, I thought that ValhallaShimmer was made specifically to emulate the H3K Reverse Shift algorithm (and more). How is ValhallaShimmer different from H3K Crystal Echoes, when it is set up right? (Reverse pitch mode, octave shift, feedback, etc.)

jhno

I've never played with an H3000. The pitch shifting in ValhallaShimmer was inspired by the descriptions of the H3000 Reverse Shift algorithm, but with the splicing set to a specific (short) length, and with my own randomization techniques to make things sound good with larger pitch shifts. Most of the "mojo" of Shimmer comes from the diffusion network.

The Cyrstal Echoes preset, as far as I understand it, uses reverse shifting with feedback, and no diffusion. Shimmer has pitch shifting with optional reversing, but also runs the signal through a bunch of series diffusors, which smear out the signal in time (i.e. reverberation). Crystal Echos is a pitch shifter with feedback, while ValhallaShimmer is a reverb with pitch shifted feedback. Shimmer will create a much more diffuse sound (if Diffusion is set to 0.5 or above), where the pitch shifting gradually evolves, as opposed to the discrete jumps heard in something like Crystal Echos.

Sean Costello

Ah, that makes sense. Now I recall well that the H3K had no reverb in its algorithm.

So, ValhallaShimmer with the diffusion turned off, should be really close to H3K reverse shift, right?
This is for sure a nice sound, with no internal diffusion in ValhallaShimmer, but just using an external reverb.

It is not quite the same as an H3K or for that matter an H949 - but I think that the character of those units can not be completely emulated any more than a Moog filter or a Roland Dimension D can be emulated to satisfaction.

I once asked Tom Oberheim about the particular sonic character of the H3K, and his guess was that it could be attributed to the anti-aliasing filters. Perhaps DSP filters are the weak link across the board! I have often wondered skeptically about the ability of recursive linear filters to produce the rich behavior of the analog circuits they replace.

Anyway, I *really* love ValhallaShimmer.

jhno

Not really. The H3000 Reverse Shift would send the pitch shifted signals directly to the output, as opposed to having them in the feedback loop. Plus, the reverse shift algorithm in the H3000 has user defined splice length. With big splices, you can get some nice reverse delays using this.

The pitch shifting block used within ValhallaShimmer can have different splice sizes, but I hardwired them to a good length for shifting the pitch inside a reverb (somewhere around 1/10th of a second IIRC). In the future, I want to play around with a plugin that exposes and extends these parameters, but I want to make sure that the plugin does more than simple replicate Crystallizer or the upcoming PitchFunk plugin.



Thanks!

Sean Costello