Hello,

I have different set lists. Each of them with a lot of
sub sessions.
Now I want to concentrate the best sub sessions in defined
new set lists.
How can I copy defined sub sessions to other set lists?

There is probably an easy to use setlist merge load option missing...

If you can manage to open two instances of Cantabile (with different settings files) you can try to copy and paste between the setlist windows of both instances.

You can export racks as files. That is the only way I have found to move the data between sessions.

Setlist entries are just references to sessions (and subsessions - if you're using Performer edition). These do not contain session data by itself.

Rack im-/export is a different story and probably not related to the last post. However it's worth noting this option anyways.

The connection I was making was that if one wants to use a setlist that shares common plugins for fast loading (and who doesn't want fast loading on software that is designed for live playing?) and if various sessions feature different setups - then the one way to ensure that the session contains all of the plugin components is take the racks from one session, export them, and put them into the required session.
Your idea about opening two Cantabiles is cool though. I tried that and you can actually drag and drop racks and midi routings from one to the other. <thumbs up>

There's a bit of a conflict with the audio being locked to one session and a few error messages spring up but its probably worth persevering and seeing if it is bullet proof once a session is reconformed this way.

Oh, I see.

When it comes to plugin loading strategies I admit I've discussed that with Brad some time ago... What we have right now is reuse of plugins from the last session.

I've suggested additional options. One is preloading of certain plugins regardless which session you load. Second is unload protection of certain plugins once a session has used them. Finally an analysis for used plugins in sessions would complete the toolbox...

These options would probably resolve some setlist issues you refer to?

On the other hand these options can be memory hungry - but there is nothing for free anyways...

Regardless - there is no way to consolidate sub-sessions from different sessions into one master session. It's easy to see the problem - different sessions can have completely different setups. How is a sub-session supposed to know what's happening when it is imported into another session? It can't.

But if users are disciplined in their setups - use a common template which covers all requirements - then it should be possible to re-conform.

This is not as limiting as it sounds - I have a feeling that most people who come to Cantabile do so because they are looking for a stable platform to run live. They don't want to be bogged down by the facilities, bells and whistles, that come with a conventional DAW which is used in a studio most of the time. In this case, people want to use this stuff live where risks are kept to a minimum.
So, that might come down to using a very specific set of plug-ins that are common to all Sessions. I'm a new user but I've come to realise very quickly that if I setup my most required plugins in the correct way, then there is nothing that cannot be achieved for live use.

Right now, the simplest way I have found to get the settings for a sub-session over to another session (thanks to your idea of opening up two cantabiles) is to drag and drop routings and racks from one session to another. Before doing this, you create a new subsession in the 'master session' and turn everything OFF. Then you drag and drop the components of the sub-session from the source session into the master session. This works right now!
The only issue is that midi-routings lose their names. This happens when drag and dropping or copy/pasting.

The other issue is, of course, that you begin to acquire racks which already have plugins that are probably already in the master session. All you can do then is to save the files of each rack's contents and load them into the required rack. Whichever way you look at it, it could be tedious work.
That's why I'm using one session with a massive sub-session list from now on - and I'll use it until it can go no further - saving backups all the way.
set-Lists will keep things under control in live use. I hope.

That's not what I referend to when talking about plugin options. The options I meant affect session changes and make them probably much faster...

But ok, you can not simply "import" a subsession into a different session context. But that's exactly why there is a setlist feature.

Ok I understand your concept of locking the required plugins into every session loaded. At first I had trouble conceptualizing how a locked plug in would appear in different sessions. There are mix levels and routings to set for each subsession even if the contents of a plugin are locked. So is it that you are seeing an option to - for example - see the locked items appear, perhaps , in the list of plugins with a special designation ? The kontakt (L) ?
That would allow such plugin to be incorporated into any rack with any required routings available to be set by the user. Just like instantiating any plugin - except these are preloaded- and can only be used once . Or did you have a different view on how this would work ?
And of course the setlist feature exists to handle subsessions from different sessions - the one thing it can't presently guarantee is fast loading so your idea is the missing link
Having said that - the strategy of using one session with all subsessions within it and designating certain plugins to not load the bank works right now - and set lists are the organizational tool that makes that practical for live use. The one area that gets crazy is the MRT. Get some directories and basic tools in there and you would have more than one way to skin the cat. And with no major software rejig to make it happen.

The plugin options do not appear in a session. That's exactly the idea - not caring about that in a session.

What we actually have is "use fast session switching" in general settings. As far as I know this is reusing a plugin from a previous sessions when it is used in the next session.

I don't think setting routiongs or mix levels is a time consuming business... Did you ever try to insert a new rack and load plugins while you were playing? Believe it or not - you can do this in cantabile...

Imagine the plugin options I talked about as a pool of loaded plugins and when loading a session plugins can be picked from there instead of needing to load them.

BTW @pinkcanaru - did you already check your PM?

Hi, would this mean we don't need subsessions any more as the "time eaters" (loading a plugin and loading masses of sample content) were static?

Additionally: would it also be possible to load a plugin that's not implemented in your "pool" (f.e. for creating a new stacked sound)?

regards, humphrey

Hmmm...

Subsessions provide us "states within a session" - without loading of any files. That's maybe volume settings, split zones and similar things. Subsession changes do not need any file loading.

Changing sessions always means in Cantabile loading a new session file. As far as I know this is a kind of zip archive containing several components. This may be fast but not totally for free.

But finally I think loading new plugins with the session changes is the most time consuming point. Extending the current plugin reuse mechanism to reduce loading plugins will gain switching performance - for the price of higher memory use.

Of course plugins that are currently not in that pool will be loaded - that's exactly what we have now! My suggestion is just about extending the current handling by preloading plugins in this pool (regardless if there is actually a session using it) and about keeping one that is dynamically loaded instead of throuwing it away with the current strategy - having just a limited scope on "prev" vs. "next" session.

To finish with and make clear, this "pool" I'm talking about does already exist - hidden behind the "fast session switching" option. My suggestion points on adding management options. I've also already discussed this with Brad a long time ago - but it didn't make it in version 2.x Probably it is worth trying to bring it back into view for version 3.x

Hi there,

I previously did some tests with fast session switching and I it did not seem to play ball with samplers. I'll look again.

With regard to mix /partial send levels - this is fiddly thing in Cantabile to get perfectly reproduced unless you import a rack or copy/paste.
And routings? Once that list grows you need a snorkel and flippers before you dive in. Can there be any doubt that a potentially huge list needs organizational tools?
I like the idea of the pool of preloaded plugins. I'll check my PM

Thanks

It's the way it should work, but do testing, I appreciate it. Let me know your findings. Finally Brad is the mastermind - I'm, just digesting...