This is a good point. I hadn't thought to use velocity to model some of the small, random variations in a true analog synth. This would give the musician the natural variability while still allowing for a modicum of control. Interesting thought.

I don't mind a little velocity sensitivity for an accent here and there, but for the most part I prefer none. It's sort of like organ toner harpsichord tones, velocity response just throws off the sound. Now...that said, I've gotten used to disabling velocity as a modulator on things like Synth Squad ad DIVA and don't find the extra two seconds it takes when needed all that distracting.

Something else the velocity settings would depend on.
Which synth being used.
The velocity settings effect is different among different synths.
The difference of velocity effects from Diva to Dune, is like night and day.
The velocity effect in Diva will mostly be very subtle, whereas in Dune it, at higher values, has a very strong effect.
Not to mention different midi controller velocity curves, and key action.

Generally if I'm trying to do emulative patches of a certain synth I also emulate any "limits" within that synth. So if I'm doing a Moog Prodigy recreation I leave out velocity and only have modulation active by the modwheel etc, as per the 'real' moog synths.

I'm actually finishing up a refill with emulative Thor patches atm and I haven't used velocity in those to stay true to the original designs that I'm emulating.

:)

Really depends on where the bar is set for vintage. Dx7 had velocity, and its a kind of vintage thing now. Otoh Cz-101 did not have velocity, but Matrix 100 have. But its true that most old analog monsters had no.

Does this mean that they could not control volume or filters etc in some ways : No because a lot of keyboardist were used to control volume with pedals, or even the volume button, like guitarist use theirs to make some special effects.

With full modular synths and sequencers, you also had this little thing named accents, sometimes with levels/ammounts , and these ones were certainly used to fake velocity. ( MC-202, wich is basically a double SH101 with a sequencer had some ) Also by turning the vollume knob, or the filter cutoff, while playing with an arpegiattor or the inbuilt sequencer, on a simple Juno60 or SH101, you can fake velocity action as well, and some people certainly did it. ( I did )

Otoh all the keyboardist I've talked to would have LOVED to have velocity, and much other things, available at that time, so we're talking here about limitations that the real actors of this time were not found of.

More than that it also depends on the trust you have in your users understanding of the situation : After all we're only talking here about removing the velocity modulations, wich can be done in one second in most synths. Or maybe we're not, because removing velocity will make the instrument sound with the inital settings for all parameters that were not modulated by velocity.

So here's my understanding of the situation : To mimic the behaviour of the vintage synths, all that people have to do is to find a way to send the same velocity for all the notes. (So people who play with mouses should not worry).

Once this is stated, if an instrument reacts to velocity, all the users have to do is to vary the overal velocity ( any daw will do that ) of the -already recorded- part to actually get some variations of the same instrument whithin the instruments itself. So this solution offers the best of each worlds ......... in theory.

In theory because its a precise process to think like that for users, and some musicians might not be aware of the influence of velocity on the instruments, and that -most- vintage synths had not ( though they might/will probably find some other solutions like heavy compression to get close to that feel ), nor have the sufficient knowledge of their daws to get the benefit of such techniques.

And of course for all those who actually play the keys in real time, its a totally different feeling when browsing the presets ( But experienced synths players will get rid of that because they are used to play the keys at rather constant velocities to get the feel of one instrument, so here again user's experience level does matter ) so you can get the feel quickly of a preset and then decide if you have to modify the preset vel settings according to the project ( because a preset is meant by nature to be possibly modified by the musician to adapt to context )

So we can see that there's no obvious solution if you want to adress ALL users, while solutions are eventually more simple if you want to adress experiended ones, where experience here can be merely seen as keyboard playing skills, DAW manipulations skills, and a more or less clear understanding of what are the parameters involved.

My -personal- direction is that I mix all kinds of presets in a soundset, even in a vintage one, with a light % having no velocity modulations, for the most archetypal sounds. This is partly for educational purposes, so that less experienced users can understand the differences between presets intuitively by comparing them, and then get the minimal knowledge to get the best of their soundsets, as well as because I think some instruments are MEANT to be played this way, ie not forgiving any KB faulty playing, with full sound : Its a playing style. I also trust the users of my soundsets to be experienced enough to use some of the "best of both worlds" techniques described above, or that in some cases they will learn enough with the diversity in the soundset to quickly buil an intuitive understanding of the possible solutions. I'm also not personally interested by totally pure limited soundsets.(Read : making 150 variations on two ADSR and one basic LFO bores me) I think that people want much more than this nowadays, but well, about this subject like often, YMMV

My long 0.002 drachmes

Which in early models was limited to transmitting a maximum value of 100. Controlling my DX from my ESQ-1 keyboard always caused some DX sounds to be over driven due to the max velocity range of the ESQ.........something to keep in mind if one wishes to precisely emulate DX patches......

it's actually nothing like a sh-101, although it uses similar components. it lacks a few features and most importantly, there is only one synth circuit there! it has an additional cv/gate output which you could use to control another synthesizer.

Yes,thanks for correcting me, what I meant is that it has a 2 tracks sequencer with accents so you can control another synth with it, and get approx two SHs running in sync, if the other synth is an SH-101. As for the sound its similar, so I disagree with you here.( by similar I would say that I would have hard times to find another synth closer to SH-101 other than the Mc-202 ) I had both during a few years and even used them on stage, wich was a bit scary, but quite fun.

well some of the junos are just six sh-101s too. the mc- has some major differences although it is close, yes. the main reason i'd say it isn't like a sh-101 is that it has so many missing features. there is no noise generator in the whole thing for example.

it can't output the accent, but the glide is applied.

This makes absolute sense. This however may only work out if you release sounds via your own outlet as 3rd party work may require the full use of all available controllers (at least the main ones like velocity, aftertouch, mod and pitch wheels plus any performance knobs).

Slightly off topic. Speaking of emulating a vintage Moog or similar, you mention the modwheel, which was usually used to control vibrato. I have abandoned the modwheel for vibrato duties ( in majority of presets), instead preferring to use aftertouch, so I'd have a tough time converting back to the modwheel for vibrato. lol.

From a performance perspective I prefer to use aftertouch for vibrato too. :)

On the topic of Moog in particular, I think that the Moog is a bit quirky because you control any modulation amount by the modwheel (on the old moogs). So even if you modulate the filter freq with noise or s&h you still have to open the modwheel to get any actual modulation going. Afaik the modern day moogs work like this still.

Also, synths like the Prodigy didn't have sync by an envelope, but when you enabled sync, it actually detached oscillator 1 from the pitchwheel, leaving only the slave oscillator to be controlled by the pitchwheel. Thus giving that synched sound when turning the pitchwheel. That is another quirky feature imho. :)

Just looking back at the poll...I'm glad to see a few votes in favour of not using velocity (in vintage style presets). Those who have opted for this option, do you use vintage synths, and are you more comfortable with the non-velocity sensitive style of playing?


Quirky features are good, me thinks.
Perhaps it would be good to have a button named something like 'The gateway to quirky behaviour' which once pressed would produce some random real-time parameter modifications. A kind of 'ghost in the machine' button.

i use "vintage" synths and patching some velocity to cutoff is a huge bonus. when you want to do that.

in a good mod matrix you could actually use modulation to adjust the amount of velocity effect on whatever you apply it to.

you can do that in all the matrices i've ever made.

I shoulda chose the last one.

I do not currently have any vintage synths in my set up, but I did use them back in the day. When I have need of a particular vintage emulation, I create a patch that has velocity disabled. I have used vintage sounds, because I was trying to recreate a specific performance, e.g. Pink Floyd. If the original performance was not velocity-enabled, it would be difficult to recreate it with a patch that was velocity-enabled. I try to get as close to the original as I can for the sake of authenticity.

On the other hand, if I am creating something new, then I will use whatever features that are available.