Project VST Plugin Jv3P (JX-3P Roland)

[JvR]

Few weeks ago I started to develop a VST Plugin with Synth Maker of the Roland JX-3P synthesizer. There are a lot of Plugins but the sound is not really the JX-3P sound.
I have a Roland JX-3P what is neccessary to develop a good VST. The value settings of every parameter is display onder the knob (Yellow). See here for the layout.



Soundcloud

Some presets of my Jv3P on Soundcloud (Bank A of the JX-3P). They are in my opinion the actual sound of the Roland JX-3P and certainly the A9 Piano II (Supertramp - Logical Song)

Here is the Download VST & Standalone Link.

JvR

[martin_l]

Hi JvR,

looks like a good project you started there.

Could you also post the same sequence recorded with the hardware JX3P to compare?

How are you attempting to do the emulation? I don't know about SynthMaker, but when I started the pg-8x (JX8P emulation) with Synthedit, I quickly realised, that the standard modules are not sufficient, and that I had to code my own modules (oscillators, and envelopes) in order to get close to the sound.

Do you know whether the JX-3P is using the same circuits as the JX-8P?

How close is the PG23 to the JX-3P. I don't own the JX-3P, so I can't compare...

Cheers,
Martin

[JvR]

Could you also post the same sequence recorded with the hardware JX3P to compare?

I have post a MP3 on Soundcloud (Compare hardware JX-3P with Jv3P Plugin)

Soundcloud

How are you attempting to do the emulation? I don't know about SynthMaker, but when I started the pg-8x (JX8P emulation) with Synthedit, I quickly realised, that the standard modules are not sufficient, and that I had to code my own modules (oscillators, and envelopes) in order to get close to the sound.

It is very hard to make emulation of the JX-3P of Roland because the JX-3P is using Sync Mode and Metal Mode(Rigmodulation). The most banks are created with the Sync Mode (the JX8P don't have the Sync mode). The another banks without Sync Mode is not a problem to make emulation !!!
On the first place you need a 24dB LP and 6dB HP Filter (Parallel). Also with Syntmaker you have to create your own Env Gen. VCO's and others and changes teh code of the Filters.

Do you know whether the JX-3P is using the same circuits as the JX-8P?
How close is the PG23 to the JX-3P. I don't own the JX-3P, so I can't compare...

The sound of the JX3P is more sweet and glitter then the JX8P because the Syn mode is the reason. The PG200 is the editer for the JX3P.
You can find on internet for more infomation of both Synthesizers of Roland.

Best regards
JvR

[martin_l]

I have post a MP3 on Soundcloud (Compare hardware JX-3P with Jv3P Plugin)

I guess you are on the right track there, but it sounds to me that the envelopes need some adjustment, and in the last sound, there is some aliasing in the plugin sound. I guess this piano sound includes some Sync'ing. You might need to oversample a bit more there.

It is very hard to make emulation of the JX-3P of Roland because the JX-3P is using Sync Mode and Metal Mode(Rigmodulation). The most banks are created with the Sync Mode (the JX8P don't have the Sync mode). The another banks without Sync Mode is not a problem to make emulation !!!
On the first place you need a 24dB LP and 6dB HP Filter (Parallel). Also with Syntmaker you have to create your own Env Gen. VCO's and others and changes teh code of the Filters.

The sound of the JX3P is more sweet and glitter then the JX8P because the Syn mode is the reason. The PG200 is the editer for the JX3P.
You can find on internet for more infomation of both Synthesizers of Roland.

The JX-8P does have sync and ring modulation (even the combination of them). In order to get the sync sound right, I had to use quite high oversampling. I use between 16x and 48x (depending on samplerate and pitch of the note). Looking at the service manuals of the two synths I guess that the DCO's are pretty similar, as both are based on dividing down a master clock signal. The filters are definitely different, and it sounds that the 3P filters have more resonance than the 9P filters (IR3C05 chip) which seems rather tame.

The envelopes sound very similar again. Both are software generated, and not analog envelopes. Have a careful look at the 3P envelopes, whether they show the same sort of 'quantisation' as the 8P envelopes. In case of the 8P, this is very important to get the pluck sounds right.

If you want, have a look at my pg-8x:

http://sites.google.com/site/mlvst0/pg8x/
http://www.facebook.com/MLVST


Cheers,
Martin

[JvR]

Thanks Martin for your tips. I set already de Tune en Fine Tune to 48x for get a better Sync mode.
I will set this higher to 96x and also the another Knobs to 32x or 48x.

I remarks it already last week when I played on the JX-3P Synthesizer en changed the value with the sense knob.
The display leds are going from one to sixteen but there are three or four steps between the next led go burn !!
I have the JX3P already from 1982 and never remarks this.

I use your pg-8x already but I see there is a new version. I cann't get the sound of the JX-3P but the sound is very good.
Only it is using sometimes so much CPU (Both Rel. of the ENV on max. up to 40%) The Jv3R of my is with max. Rel and playing polyfone (6x) onl to 15% and in normal use only 4%.
I donn't know about Sythedit. You can make there wireless connections ? when this is you change it to straight connections. It will save CPU on you computer.

I go working again the coming days and let know the state of my VST Jx3R.

Thanks agian
JvR

[martin_l]

I use your pg-8x already but I see there is a new version. I cann't get the sound of the JX-3P but the sound is very good.

I would not expect it to sound like an 3P, due to the different filters, and probably also differences in the components.

Only it is using sometimes so much CPU (Both Rel. of the ENV on max. up to 40%) The Jv3R of my is with max. Rel and playing polyfone (6x) onl to 15% and in normal use only 4%.
I donn't know about Sythedit. You can make there wireless connections ? when this is you change it to straight connections. It will save CPU on you computer.

Well. Synthedit synths tend to be a bit CPU hungry. That's why I am trying to rewrite it natively at the moment.


All the best for your Jv3P!!

Martin

[AdmiralQuality]

The filters are definitely different, and it sounds that the 3P filters have more resonance than the 9P filters (IR3C05 chip) which seems rather tame.

The JX-3P's filters came from the factory with the internal trim pots for the 6 resonance levels set so that full was JUST below self-oscillation. You can open the synth up and turn them up quite easily to enable self-oscillation at the maximum resonance setting in the patch.

As far as I remember, the JX-8P also doesn't quite self-oscillate. I forget if I opened mine up but I know I tweaked one of the JX-3Ps I used to have.

There are also some "Easter Egg" modes in the JX-3P that you get by powering it up while holding certain buttons. (The bank buttons I think.) One mode which is nice shows you the currently running voice numbers on the first 6 patch selector switches (very handy for when you're tweaking the internal trim pots and want to know which voice you're currently hearing). Another does cycle-assignment.

Another great trick on those old Roland DCO synths was to plug the MIDI OUT into the MIDI IN to get doubling. The DCOs combined with slight jitter in the voice assigner timing would cause it to randomly switch between different phase relationships between the two notes, which was often cool. (A bit like the unison sound on Juno-106, but that was all 6 voices with slightly varying phase shifts, again from minor timing discrepancies in the voice-assigner.)

[Skorpius]

Few weeks ago I started to develop a VST Plugin with Synth Maker of the Roland JX-3P synthesizer. There are a lot of Plugins but the sound is not really the JX-3P sound.

Thanks for your attention and give me please a respons.
JvR

Great! I can't wait to hear the finished product. I haven't found a single VSTi that even comes close to the real JX-3P sounds. I've been missing those sounds for about 25 years now.

However, the GUI could look a little more modern, and maybe a bit more 3D-like. This would certainly attract more people once it's ready for the public

All the best for your work!

@martin_l: Of course, all the best to your work as well. Maybe you two could get together and create one big super-duper JX-38P VSTi?

[martin_l]

@martin_l: Of course, all the best to your work as well. Maybe you two could get together and create one big super-duper JX-38P VSTi?

How would you envisage that? Basically an 8P where each component (DCO, Filter, etc...) could be switched (or morphed between the 3P and 8P sound? I am not sure whether that would be possible at all, if the designs are different...

If JvR is up for it, why not, but I think first he should focus on getting the Jv3P out, and I should continue with the new version of the pg8x.

Cheers,
Martin

[AdmiralQuality]

I haven't found a single VSTi that even comes close to the real JX-3P sounds. I've been missing those sounds for about 25 years now.

Try Poly-Ana. Some of the built-in patches are near exact replicas of sounds I used to get from my '3P. (Though even better, with velocity sensitivity, true stereo voices, mod wheel instead of button, etc...)

Particularly patches...

"065:PAD: Floating Atmosphere"

"066:PAD: Inverted Wetness II"

"098:POLYSYNTH: Planet-3P" (This is almost exactly the PLANET preset from the '3P).

"104:POLYSYNTH: Uber-8 II" (Meant to sound like an OB8, like Rush's "Subdivisions", but very close to a big Roland brass sound as well.)

"127:STR: Slow Stringz"

And there's lots more. Poly-Ana's filters are particularly good at making Roland-like sounds. A JX-3P was my first polysynth back in '83, so it was a big influence.

[JvR]

Here is the Download Link.

JvR

[martin_l]

Here is the Download Link.

JvR

Good to see this one released. I am looking forward to trying it out this weekend.

Cheers,
Martin

[fmr]

I downloaded your instrument. You can't imagine how enthused I was. I have an MKS-30 which is half broken for a while (one of the voice chips started to make random noise and I had to disconnect it). It was my first synthesizer, and I know it inside out, since I programmed it extensively for a couple of years, until I had the chance to get others.
I have a deeply appreciated sound I programmed, and which patch sheet I kept all these years, in the hope that someday I could reprogram it in a softsynth.
I runned to it, and launched your synth.
First disappointment: the values displayed had nothing to do with the real ones. The MKS-30 displays values go from 00 to 99, and several knobs are selectors, with just three or four positions.
Your instrument displays strange dotted values, have a range from zero to sixteen, and the selectors go above and below the values they should select, which makes me uncertain of what is selected at those positions. I don't know if the JX-3P uses your values (the MKS-30 certainly doesn't, and it is supposed to be the very same synth), but since you are using the PG-200 image, you should notice that it goes from 0 to 10 for a reason (00 to 99, see?).
Another thing: The LFO random in these Rolands have very specific and personal patterns, which I rely on for the sound of many of my patches (the one I tried to recreate being one of them). Your random behaves completely different, and makes it impossible to get the same effects.
Finally, the filter doesn't seem to be there, at least in what concerns to the modulation depth by the LFO.
You created a very good sounding VA, and it may sound convincing in standard patches, but nowdays, those of us who look for these synths are for very specific sounds, that are unique to them, and rely many times on small details, like Admiral pointed.
I will glady help you in develop it further if you want, but right now I am busy helping another guy with another Roland recreation.
In a couple of months that project may be finished, and I may help you then.
If you are interested, please contact me, because I'd love to have a real MKS-30 emulation.

[electro]

I understand the JX3P and Juno 60 share the same filters and envelopes.

[Teksonik]

Why is there so much background noise in the sound example in the first post? That sounds more like a hardware unit being recorded.......