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Rack Extensions and Alchemy

Official support for: camelaudio.com

Moderator: Camel Audio Mods

Do you think Alchemy should invest any effort for porting itself to Reason ?

Yes absolutely
33
58%
Not a bad idea, but I can live without it, Rewire works fine for me
10
18%
Thanks for all the Fish !
14
25%
 
Total votes : 57
kilon
KVRist
 
495 posts since 13 Jun, 2004

Postby kilon; Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:43 am Rack Extensions and Alchemy

I have been itching to buy Reason for quite some time. I have been creating some fun experiments with the demo version but I never decided to buy it because of 2 big reasons (pun intended)

a) No audio recording for my external synths

b) No Camel Audio Alchemy

Like most people I did tried the rewire approach but I did not like the idea of fragmenting my workflow like that. I just could not see my self sticking with a Rewire approach.

Anyway I am in need of a new DAW , and was thinking of buying Reaper because its quite cheap. And then Reason 6.5 announcement came to turn my world upside down.

Not only reason has implemented audio recording for some quite time but now they are about to implement for 6.5 which is quite close to release their own plugin system. So at last Reason will be able to run its own plugins. Being a developer myself I am not big fan of either VST or AU , since both make my daws crash a lot. A big selling point for Reason was always stability and to be frank its the most rock solid piece of software I have use so far.

So my question is two fold, for you users and for Camel Audio Developers

A) Do you as users want Alchemy to be ported to Reason as Rack extension (I am not offering any links so not to be considered I am advertising , googling is your friend)

B) Do you as Alchemy developers think there is a sizable audience out there to port Alchemy to reason (in appropriate time of course, I know these things take time ) or you think the Reason market , does not worth your effort.

I have done a search in the forum and seems there is no other similar thread, so hopefully I am not reopening an known subject.

Would love to hear opinions from both sides. You can also vote , just look above for the poll.
Meffy
Skunk Mod
 
20423 posts since 10 Jun, 2004, from Pony Pasture

Postby Meffy; Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:48 am

[edit: deleted; redundant]
Last edited by Meffy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ben [Camel Audio]
KVRAF
 
2657 posts since 17 Sep, 2001, from Edinburgh, Scotland

Postby Ben [Camel Audio]; Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:51 am

We'd love to port Alchemy to RE format, but unfortunately the RE format currently has too many restrictions on the interface and in other respects which unfortunately make it impossible for us to release Alchemy or even Alchemy Player in RE format. (I can't say more than that due to the NDA). These aren't restrictions we can work round in any way - its just impossible with the current RE spec. We hope the Propellerheads will implement these features soon, as we'd love to create a version of Alchemy in RE format :) So if this is something you're really keen to see, Propellerheads are the people to lobby to implement the features we need. (We've already chatted to them about it, so they know what's required).

Cheers
Ben
kilon
KVRist
 
495 posts since 13 Jun, 2004

Postby kilon; Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:00 am

Wow , now that is what I call fast replying. Thanks both of you.

So there is bad news and good news. Bad news is you can't do it currently , good news is you want to do it. Well I will take them as good news anyway, because I was kinds afraid that you will not be interested into that. Sure I will certainly voice my desire to get Alchemy inside Reason , in P forums, as I have supported Alchemy many times in these forums and in gearslutz forums.

And frankly with so many fans, I don't think we will have any problem pressuring big P seeing that Alchemy can be a very big advantage for Reason to have. And I am pretty sure they will certainly won't ignore your needs as developers.

I am a python developer myself, and I know that if you have a problem with RE most likely loads of VST/AU developers will have too. I watched an interview by the creator of Maalstorm (another amazing Reason synth) , saying that there are some pretty sever limitation currently. But then I do not expect all problems to be solved in a single version. These things take time , and I have zero problem waiting for them.

I can say I leave this thread a very happy man ;)
kilon
KVRist
 
495 posts since 13 Jun, 2004

Postby kilon; Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:38 am

as I promised I opened a thread in Reason forum, Alchemy users can join and voice their support , lets make Alchemy in Reason a reality ... its only reasonable :D


https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ost1063625
emotica
KVRian
 
1108 posts since 21 Feb, 2010, from Berlin, Germany

Postby emotica; Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:45 am

+1

Probably the synth I like to see in Reason the most. Hopefully, it will be possible at some point. Never bought the full version to use it in other hosts I just don't like to make music with, but something to purchase once it will work inside Reason + happy Alchemy Player user. :)
Cerval
KVRer
 
10 posts since 8 Nov, 2005

Postby Cerval; Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:02 am

+1

Alchemy in Reason is like a dream ...

I buy it right away :love:
Ben H
KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 28 Jul, 2003

Postby Ben H; Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:45 am

kilon wrote:as I promised I opened a thread in Reason forum, Alchemy users can join and voice their support , lets make Alchemy in Reason a reality ... its only reasonable :D


https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ost1063625


OR

You could just petition PH to be able to open up VST/i's in Reson, like any good REAL DAW can do since forever. :roll:
My main tools: Alchemy, Iris, Kontakt, Omnisphere, Padshop Pro, and SWAM.
kilon
KVRist
 
495 posts since 13 Jun, 2004

Postby kilon; Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:10 pm

ben_horwood wrote:
kilon wrote:as I promised I opened a thread in Reason forum, Alchemy users can join and voice their support , lets make Alchemy in Reason a reality ... its only reasonable :D


https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ost1063625


OR

You could just petition PH to be able to open up VST/i's in Reson, like any good REAL DAW can do since forever. :roll:


Actually the only real daw out there , meaning digital audio workstation has been Reason. In my book at least the very fact that you depend on plugin system to implement basic functionality , it pretty much cancels the word "workstation". Since DAW would imply a rather complete package, which Reason has been all along and all other so called "DAWs" have not .

Another problem is I don't like or even use VSTs, the only thing I use is Audio Units and I am not a big fan of those either. Reason promoting its own format makes perfect sense to me, every software should implement a format that takes advantage of its own engine.

And since Camel Audio is willing to fully port Alchemy to Reason , with the conditions that the restrictions are lifted , I see no reason to petition for something I don't care about.
Ben H
KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 28 Jul, 2003

Postby Ben H; Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:24 pm

kilon wrote:Actually the only real daw out there , meaning digital audio workstation has been Reason. In my book at least the very fact that you depend on plugin system to implement basic functionality , it pretty much cancels the word "workstation". Since DAW would imply a rather complete package, which Reason has been all along and all other so called "DAWs" have not .


And yet for many years, it has not even had basic audio editing or recording.
Even now it lacks basic MIDI out functionality among many other things.

Also, only now does it include support for a plugin format. One which noone else uses of course, because that's the backwards-ass way that PH have always done things.

kilon wrote:Another problem is I don't like or even use VSTs, the only thing I use is Audio Units and I am not a big fan of those either.


Good for you, but you are actually in the minority here. Most people DO.

kilon wrote:And since Camel Audio is willing to fully port Alchemy to Reason , with the conditions that the restrictions are lifted , I see no reason to petition for something I don't care about.


I do.

Camel Audio is a small team without the resources of a larger developer like Steinberg, NI, or PH. So I would much rather see them concentrate their time and resources on something that is going to actually benefit me as a customer. And not just me, but the majority of their customers.

Alchemy 2 has been such a long time coming, and if they were to spend more time trying to accomodate such a small amount of potential new customers, then that means that we all have to wait even longer for it.

But I think the poll speaks for itself as to what the Camel Crew should and shouldn't be spending their time/resources on. ;)
Last edited by Ben H on Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My main tools: Alchemy, Iris, Kontakt, Omnisphere, Padshop Pro, and SWAM.
User avatar
billcarroll
KVRian
 
1154 posts since 9 Dec, 2011

Postby billcarroll; Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:38 pm

Please please please do not waste time making a Rack Extension for Reason.
kilon
KVRist
 
495 posts since 13 Jun, 2004

Postby kilon; Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:13 pm

I did not say Reason is perfect , I said that find more of a Workstation in its workflow than any other DAW out there. I did too miss the lack of audio recording because I am mainly a hardware synths guy and its pretty crucial for me. All this time I was using Reason demo for experimentation and never became my main DAW until after I opened this thread that I went and bought it (sorry could not wait for Alchemy RE :D )

Also I never expected people who do not use Reason to vote for a RE , actually I am surprised so many people voted for Reason it shows that is far more popular than I thought it was.

Anyway if you solely dependent on VSTs i can see your frustration. It seems that even before RE is released (it was released yesterday and I am about to give it a try) pretty much most VST developers have showed a clear interest for it. I don't think it is an exaggeration to predict that in 3 years time every VST will have its own RE so I think at least the need for support of VST won't be necessary.

And to tell you the truth I have little doubt that REs will be far more stable , flexible and better fit than VSTs so I am glad PH is doing thing as you say "backward-ass" way. I happenes to be also a developer , not a very good one, just a python noob, and I know a good design when I see one. And without being able to use or see the internals of RE it seems like a very solid design for a startle will see how it will evolve.

Now I am off to try my REs :D
Ben H
KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 28 Jul, 2003

Postby Ben H; Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:40 am

kilon wrote:It seems that even before RE is released (it was released yesterday and I am about to give it a try) pretty much most VST developers have showed a clear interest for it.


I wouldn't describe the interest as "pretty much most VST developers."
It's rather a small handful actually.

However maybe if the PH newsletters and forums were my main source of information, then I might be persuaded that that was the actual case.

kilon wrote:I don't think it is an exaggeration to predict that in 3 years time every VST will have its own RE so I think at least the need for support of VST won't be necessary.


I do... And I'm sure that many others will agree with me.

kilon wrote:And to tell you the truth I have little doubt that REs will be far more stable , flexible and better fit than VSTs


Yeah, I've noticed a lot that Reason users tend to buy in to the "better stability" propaganda that PH continually feed them.
My main tools: Alchemy, Iris, Kontakt, Omnisphere, Padshop Pro, and SWAM.
jensa
KVRAF
 
1619 posts since 11 Dec, 2005, from Möllevången, Malmö, Sweden

Postby jensa; Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:10 am

kilon wrote:Another problem is I don't like or even use VSTs, the only thing I use is Audio Units and I am not a big fan of those either.
Some developers are using Magnus Lidström's (the man behind Reason's Maelstrom synth) VST wrapper to create Audio Unit plugins. That means, in essence, those Audio Units plugins are standing on the shoulders or VST plugins, and you might be using some of those VST's without knowing it. :-)

More info about Symbiosis here: https://code.google.com/p/symbiosis-au-vst/
kilon
KVRist
 
495 posts since 13 Jun, 2004

Postby kilon; Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:11 am

ben_horwood wrote:Yeah, I've noticed a lot that Reason users tend to buy in to the "better stability" propaganda that PH continually feed them.


Reason has been the most rock stable DAW and probably piece of software I have used, I am not touched by "propaganda" or marketing or whatever, I like to give every software the benefit of the doubt. In my experience with it , its far ahead at least compared to all the major DAWs I tried in terms of stability, I don't remember crashing it even once. Experience of other people may vary, but I value my experience the most ;)


I respect that you may hate / don't like / whatever Reason, I have zero issues with that. I did not buy Reason so you would like it or to be with a popular choice , I bought it for my own personal reasons and needs. The point of this thread was to discuss whether there was a possibility to port Alchemy to Reason and see how many users actually take an interest in such port. Not so much to discuss whether Reason sucks or not sucks. You are welcomed to continue such conversation but I won't be joining. As far as me is concerned this thread has been a clear win for me, Camel Audio wants to port Reason to PH and many Aclhemy users would love to see Aclhemy RE made into reality. The similar thread I opened in Reason forum shows a massive demand for Achemy as a RE.

I achieved my goal , now the only thing remaining is let things evolve ;)

jensa wrote:
kilon wrote:Another problem is I don't like or even use VSTs, the only thing I use is Audio Units and I am not a big fan of those either.
Some developers are using Magnus Lidström's (the man behind Reason's Maelstrom synth) VST wrapper to create Audio Unit plugins. That means, in essence, those Audio Units plugins are standing on the shoulders or VST plugins, and you might be using some of those VST's without knowing it. :-)

More info about Symbiosis here: https://code.google.com/p/symbiosis-au-vst/


I use only Alchemy, I doubt they use the linked tool but only Camel Audio can verify that.
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