Getting better by the minute

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4957912#495791 2

This is seriously bad! The RE's should definitely be transferable.
I'm no professional so I'm usually online with my "studio" computer, but having to be online to work on you project got to be a dealbreaker for a lot of people.
This whole thing is starting to look really really bad and not very well thought out.

As they say:
Great people, Great mistakes!

I posted this before but I'll post it again, licenses are not transferable at this point in time BUT it's not out of the question for the future. This is a couple of days after the first ever release of Rack Extensions, we're listening to your feedback.

Some more feedback...



No way around it...no transfers might mean no deal for many.

Great if you have no plans to ever stop using Reason but that cannot be a huge number of people perhaps not nearly enough to sustain Re going forward. I don't think you can transfer Apple apps (loose comparison) either but their low app price suggests it is much less of an issue for Apple users.

Of course Devs need to get paid and it might not be plausible or realistic for Devs of music software to sell Re Apps that cheap so the higher price in the Re Shop may be unavoidable but it does now present a user with a stark choice

1. Buy and know there is no chance of a re - sell in future (so many unexpected things can trigger the sale of a plugin)

OR

2. Don't buy Re's and just use Reason as is. The complete opposite of what the Props would want.

Many who were interested in Re and Reason as first time buyers might reconsider as the greater the investment in Re plugs the greater the loss if you decide to stop using them and want to sell.

Reason at least remains transferable.

Cakewalk appear to be doing brisk business with their Pro Channel format. Their user base appear mostly very happy with it (and the prices for the most part) but perhaps Cakewalk have better prepared their userbase as Cakewalk products AFAICT cannot be resold.

So I guess it was not a surprise for Cakewalks user base to not have a transfer option for Pro Channel plugs. Softube might allow their ProChannel plugs to be Re - sold though (not sure about that one) but Cakewalks own Pro Channel add ons IIRC cannot be re -sold yet remain popular.

However I still think it is a lot to ask people to spend 3 figures (would not be difficult) on Re's and have no option to sell in future especially for a format that is embryonic at best still. Cakewalk appear to have made a no transfer option and their own add ons work but Reason users and other potential buyers (from other DAW's are far less likely to consider Re's now.

Reason + Re is not strong enough an option yet IMO for more than a few but add a lack of transfers for Re and I would postulate that it is perhaps a very substantial error by Propellerhads here. Many Cakewalk users would love a transfer option (maybe Cakewalk are considering it) but why limit the uptake of Re this way at such a critical stage of it's launch?

As I mentioned in the other thread (why are there more than one about this now?): I'm not one for selling my software (I have boxes of Cubase, Sonar, all sorts that I don't even have installed... just in case!).

However, it concerns me that if the Propellerhead Shop at a future time went down for any reason (e.g. the company went out of business, was bought out, or even just that their website had a crash and lost some information...) my purchases are dead.
The only way to install an RE is via your Propellerhead account online...

I think that is quite a problem in terms of future proofing to be honest, because we are only as future proof as the company (no guarantee in this economy, as we've seen recently with BIAS) and its website (which has not been without its own problems already).

Not a big deal with cheap purchases, but the initial batch of REs in the store have a cumulative cost exceeding $1,000 and there are going to be more from Uhe, Rob Papen, etc in the next month or two which will quickly take the value up to a quite high figure for those who really want to invest in this platform.

For me that just looks like way too risky an investment.

I understand but you are asking for an act of faith done with our money (income) which the more we spend the more we get "kind of stuck in a catch 22" due to the cash invested.

It may not matter much to many of the hardcore Reason users because they are committed to it but a change of mind and a financial cushion, not just on the initial investment like a non transferable license as in FL etc. which is minimal compared to a ever growing stack of" RE Esclusive Use" plugins investment, is not available. Period.

I think that the PH are beginning to show a taint of hidden greed and a low profile long term control of a certain level of freedom that is usually bestowed upon customers investing their money in their business.

At this point would be very wise for anyone to wait and see their ultimate plan and intention.
Look, it's not a new business model to get the user to buy into a closed system and keep them there due to the various investment (time, work, money etc.) thanks to a brilliant marketing campaign. Apple being a master at it.

I spent thousand of dollars on plugins but I have the freedom to use them where I need at any time. But you are asking to invest with you FOR LIFE! Good thing Steve Jobs didn't owned Propellerhead. We would all end up wrapped in cables and lost in back panels trying to make sounds rather then music.

Give us more freedom and Reason will not need to waste time and money in marketing rather than improve their product.

+1

Love the idea with Re but I cannot commit to a permanent investment in Re. That is too much to ask for a format that has only just launched especially after seeing what happened to Record as a product.

You misunderstood. Your "studio" computer needs to be online when downloading/installing the extensions. The RE license is added to your key. Now you're free to disconnect and use the Rack Extensions offline on that computer using your key.

Didn't Ik Multimedia first launch the latest version of Amplitube/Custom shop as a online only instal on the target computer? and then they switched it to allow offline instals? Can't Propellerhead add the offline instal option also?

I know a decent amount of people who have bought Reason in the past who have offline music computers because they have their internet in a different part of the house and do not have or want wireless hardware on their music computers in their home studios.

If you can download, backup and instal a Reason or refill purchase.. you should be able to do the same for other (RE) purchases. Especially when you have to use the Dongle anyway. just my two cents

Honestly, before I got waist deep in pro-audio, my awareness was that software cannot be resold by license terms. The fact that anything at all CAN be resold/transferred within some developers' terms has been surprising to me. When I buy software, I accept there may be a loss. All my "investment' in countless versions of Carrara was a total loss because the product is fundamentally broken. All my "investment" in PC software is largely lost on my transition to Macs (granted, I plan to use boot camp to help me transition, I hate using Windows and will eventually have to say goodbye to all the Windows-only products I have).

I've also found resale to be less convenient than just eating the losses. I considered selling hardware that does me no good, only to find it has no value to anyone else either ($100 for my receptor 1 revision b feels like such a terrible loss that I'm holding onto it instead of selling it; maybe it can run some of those freeware Windows-only vst plugs when I'm all Mac).

Then there's the sunk cost fallacy. (that's what bit me with Carrara)

But overall, I've just always assumed software was a necessary evil, until the eventual (hopefully) ban of the EULA as we currently know it

+1

I just don't understand why Propellerhead have apparently failed to think this through from a customer/user's point of view.

If they, or their website, did go down at some point in the future, the poo is going to hit the fan very hard on this one, and for a lot of users

edit. wrong thread
Last edited by memyselfandus on Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total

Too much for ANY format.
Are we going backward? Either the PH think we are loosing our common sense or they are delusional in some way.
How many of you have the the right mind to buy into something that is not really yours....
Use it (with us) or you loose it policy.

I have a lot of music in Reason but now I see that the future may be more difficult than it seems because they may slowly change the little rights that you bought into it long ago.

Serial>Dongle for Record only>dongle for Reason>Internet only access (and it's just the beginning)>Non resell agreement>next?
The more we invest in the RE the more negotiation power they will achieve.

It's only matter of time and brainless marketing response.
Take your pick.

In your way of thinking; Don't buy any music software because you don't know if it's going to run at all on your future OS of choice.